Corpus-Paul

[Harold Holmyard <hholmyard AT ont.com>]

Siu Fung Wu wrote:

> I wonder whether someone can help me with these questions.
>
> Romans 8:35 lists a few types of suffering (that cannot separate us from
> the love of Christ), which include persecution, famine, nakedness, danger
> and sword.
>
> Some commentators think that Paul has the eschatological woes in mind. And
> there is a tendency to think that Paul is referring "specifically" to his
> and the church's sufferings, because we can find parallels in Paul's
> writings elsewhere (such as 2 Cor 4 and 11). For example, famine (or
> hunger) and nakedness can be found in 2 Cor 11:27.
>
> But I wonder whether Romans 8:35 in fact refers to suffering "in general",
> although the persecution faced by Paul and the church is not far from the
> apostle's mind. By "general" I mean that the suffering is not specifically
> due to the preaching of the gospel (ie. due to an action/activity of
> Christian). Also, I wonder whether Paul has in mind to answer the
> interlocutor's questions in light of OT deuteronomic history, where sin
> would lead to suffering but obedience would lead to peace and prosperity.
>
> My thoughts are: Paul is thinking of the suffering of the righteous in
> Romans 8. There is no condemnation for those in Christ, but the question is
> why the Christian community - both Jews and Gentiles - are still suffering.
> The answer is that, until the consummation of the new age, the righteous
> still have to suffer - a concept found in the OT, with Job's suffering
> being a prime example.
>
> Hunger/famine and sword are common forms of suffering in the ancient world.
> But specifically famine and sword are covenantal curses (in Deut) and are
> warnings of the prophets (e.g. Jeremiah). Paul's audience must be asking
> how come they are still suffering from famine (e.g. famine in the Jerusalem
> area) and/or sword (e.g. occupation by the Roman empire), which are
> seemingly judgement from God. If Jesus' death and resurrection signifies
> the new age of peace and prosperity, how come famine and sword are still
> around? Paul has to address this question somehow, given the fact that he
> has argued that there is no longer condemnation for those in Christ.
>
> I certainly am not an expert in this area, but I hope this makes some
> sense.
>  

HH: I think your idea of suffering in general is best. Paul is simply 
saying that the worst sort of earthly trials cannot separate us from 
God's love. The issue is not necessarily eschatological questions or a 
strictly persecutory setting. Existence offers a lot of difficulties to 
anyone, including a believer, since God has not promised believers 
immunity from suffering in this age. But nothing can break the bond of 
love between God and His children. The context seems to be the futility 
under which existence has been placed since the fall (Rom 8:20), one 
only to be removed at the renewal of the earth and the glorification of 
the redeemed (8:19, 23).

Yours,
Harold Holmyard

> Thank you,
> Siu Fung Wu
> Melbourne, Australia
>
>
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