Corpus-Paul

["Justin Dombrowski" <jedombrowski AT msn.com>]

Question to Loren for clarification:

Are you saying either (a) the addressees in Rom 14f are non-believing Jews, 
or that (b) the subject of that discourse is non-believing Jews and the 
addressees are someone else.

If (a):  What in the text makes you think so?

If (b):  What in the text lends you to believe so?  Why can't they, 
hypothetically, be unbelieving religious pagans, or perhaps nobody in 
particular, but anyone "weak in faith" in general?

Justin D
MA Student
The Jewish Theological Seminary


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Loren Rosson" <rossoiii AT yahoo.com>
To: "Tim Gallant" <tim AT rabbisaul.com>; "Corpus-Paul" 
<corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Corpus-Paul] Audience of Romans/Symbolic Paul


> [Loren]
> > Mark would probably not care for the way I've
> revised
> > his Roman scenario, but I can't help but think
> > unbelieving Israel is in view in chs 14-15 in a
> > similar way to Caesar in ch 13: believers do and
> must
> > deal with the "outside". Rom 12-15 instructs
> > accordingly.
>
> [Tim]
> > However... Paul never addresses Caesar
> > (or the civil authorities in general)
> > in ch 13; he does address the "weak"
> > directly in ch 14.
>
> Paul doesn't need to address civil authorities on the
> question of taxation. He needs to "address"
> unbelieving Israel only in a counterpart rhetorical
> strategy, with respect to judging the other in turn.
> (See more below.)
>
> > I frankly find the view that the weak
> > in ch 14-15 are unbelieving Jews
> > to be quite implausible. In 14.4, he says
> > that the weak will be made to
> > stand, but that does not seem to fit
> > well with how he construes unbelieving
> > Jews in ch 9-11.
>
> I see no obstacle here. That non-Christian Judeans
> will be upheld is entirely compatible with Rom 11.
>
> > Even more damaging is 14.6ff, which speak
> > of living and dying to the Lord,
>
> 14:6ff is precisely what points to unbelieving Israel,
> since "weakness" has nothing to do with the Torah's
> works. "Let all be convinced in their minds what is
> right [on the subject of works]..." 4:19-21 actually
> explains what "weakness/strength" is about: belief in
> God's ability to give life to death (Isaac~Jesus). (So
> Nanos.)
>
> > which is quite explicitly Christ
> > (14.9). Would he speak of Jews who do
> > not believe upon Christ as "living and
> > dying to the Lord"?
>
> The weak are addressed only as counterparts in Paul's
> injunctions to the strong, as in 14:3-6 and 14:10-13.
> The strong are the real targets -- 14:14-15:6 puts
> this beyond doubt, I think -- and I don't see the weak
> in view at all in 14:7-9.
>
> Loren Rosson III
> Nashua NH
> rossoiii AT yahoo.com
>
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