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  • From: "moon-ryul jung" <moon AT saint.soongsil.ac.kr>
  • To: corpus-paul
  • Subject: Re: hUPO NOMON in Gal 4:5
  • Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 21:2:42


Mark,
it seems that we are in a messier world than Galatians.
Let me try to understand your comments.

[Moon]
>But what I wonder is whether what was at stake was only that
>Gentiles could be included into people of God without becoming
people
> of the Law, which was good in itself.
[Mark]

This is what is at stake in Galatia, and thus the rhetoric must be
interpreted in this light. It does not mean it was always the issue
for everyone everywhere, and it was not. Otherwise why would these
Jewish people like Paul have become Christ-believers?


Paul believes the end of the ages has come, that is what modifies
the
"right way" of the present age of proselyte conversion. It is not
wrong, except in view of the meaning of the death of Christ, which
has initiated the age to come community of Israel "and" the Nations
as One worshipping together as Israel and the Nations the One God of
all humankind (cf. Rom. 3:29-31). To deny this result for themselves
(as gentiles) is to deny the foundation of Paul's own self-identity
in Christ (as a Jew and as an apostle of this Jewish coalition).

An interesting point may be made here with respect to the "no big
deal" you recognize. If the Christ-believing coalition continued the
traditional practice of proselyte conversion then it seems their new
"theological" claims in Christ were not necessarily all that
objectionable (implied in Gal. 5:11). The rub is when what they
believe alters their halakhic lifestyle in such a way as to impose
upon the interests of other Jewish groups who do not share their
view
of an altered reality/time. Otherwise Jewish believers in Christ
would signal a difference that would not be all that divisive, at
least no more than a difference of opinion about any number of such
matters concerning messiah, messiahs, then or now or future, etc.

[Moon]
>
>But Paul's letter indicates that there were more to it. The issue
was
>more than Gentiles could be God's people without becoming people of
the
>Law.
[Mark]

Yes, as noted above.

Moon: Do you have in mind "their theological claim" that "the death of
Christ
has initiated the age to come community of Israel "and" the Nations
as One worshipping together as Israel and the Nations the One God of
all humankind (cf. Rom. 3:29-31)."? This claim "altered their
halakhic
lifestyle in such a way as to impose upon the interests of other
Jewish
groups who do not share their view of an altered reality/time."

But you are still saying that their "theological claim" has to do
with
the SCOPE of those who can worship the one God legitimately. Paul
seems to
claim much more than that. Of course, we are here talking about what
Paul
claims, not whether you and I agree with him.

[Moon]
>The issue was that the economy under the Law failed, and God sent
>Christ to redeem those under the Law from the failed regime.

[Mark]
I do not understand on what basis you make this comment...

Moon:
Rom 8:1-5, which says that what the Law could not do, God did by
sending
his son and condemning sin in the flesh.

What do you think is "what the Law could not do"?

[Moon]
> It failed not
>because the Law was bad, it failed because humans are flesh. The
issue
was
>the transfer or liberation from the realm of sin and death, which
the
>economy under the Law could not overcome. Doesn't Rom 8:1-5 point
to
that?



[Mark]
No, Was it not God's plan to help humanity until the appointed time?
Giving of the Law did not create the human problem, it just could
not
ultimately solve all of it,
Moon:
Yes, God gave the Law to help humanity. But doesn't Paul say that
the Law could not achieve what it intended "weakened by flesh", in
Rom 8:1-5?
Doesn't this paragraph say that to do what the Law could not do,
God, sending his Son for sin, CONDEMNED SIN sin in the flesh? If
there is no
"condemnation" for those who are in Christ, doesn't it imply that
there is
"condemnation" for those who are outside of Christ?


[Mark] as neither has the coming of Jesus
Christ, as far as I can see, and thus the expectation of a "return"
to complete the task

Moon:
But, according to what I understand
Paul claims about the "new life in Christ", the death and
resurrection
of Christ did what the Law could not do weakened by the flesh. Up
until now,
I think this has to do with being empowered by the Spirit, and this
is
how I took Rom 8:1-5:

>There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ.
For
the
>"law" of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from
>the "law" of sin and death. For God has done WAHT the LAW, weakend
by
>the flesh, COULD NOT DO: sending his own Son in the likeness of
sinful
>flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that
>the righteous requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who
walk not
>according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Mark:
This to is situational rhetoric, but to a different situation. I
take
this to be addressing the problem of reconciling Jew and gentile,
with the gentiles in Rome confused about the situation that has
resulted from their new relationship with Christ, and Jewish people
like Paul struggling with granting full equal standing to these
gentiles on the basis of this claim (cf. my argument in appendix one
of The Mystery of Romans).
------------
-----------
I do not see, at least
based upon what we have been discussing, any introduction of an
ontological claim about human liberation, but a social claim in view
of the meaning of Christ's death, enabled by the Spirit for those
who
make an effort to live in this way; thus the call to resist
compliance and instead live freely, not the assumption that it is in
some way automatic (cf. Gal. 5:1ff.). The enabling of the Spirit is
a
Jewish idea that functioned and still functions apart from faith in
Jesus as Christ. Am I missing your point? Is what you seem to be
claiming not the ontological altering of reality that both Jewish
and
Christian people still await in the restoration of creation in the
age to come, the "wait for the hope of righteousness"?

Moon
Yes, we all stil wait for the hope of righteousness, being empowered
by the Spirit. But Paul seems to believe that the enabling by the
Spirit
is made possible through the death and resurrection of Christ.

Overall, I am very much open to "social claim in view of the meaning
of
Christ'death" rather than "ontological claim about human
liberation".
I may be inclined to read "ontologically" because I do not know the
original context of the letter.

Again, I feel very happy about our exchanges on Galatians. It was one of
the
happiest moments in my life.

Moon
Moon R. Jung
Associate Professor
Sogang University
Seoul, Korea





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