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  • From: "Liz Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
  • To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: RE: Pre-existence of Christ
  • Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:42:55 -0400


> From: Jeffrey B. Gibson

>
> Liz Fried wrote:
>
> > Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Time prevents me from speaking about the validity of each of the
> > > elements of your
> > > chain of thought, many of which I would questionable. For
> > > instance, it is by no means
> > > clear that pre-existence of Jesus is assumed or taught in the
> > > Christ hymn in
> > > Philippians, or that GJohn says that **Jesus** was in the
> > > beginning "with", let alone
> > > equal to, or that he was God.
> > >
> > Dear Jeffrey,
> > Please explain to me why you do not think the hymn in Phillippians
> > implies that Jesus was pre-existent. And if it is not
> off-topic, I would
> > like to hear your thoughts on John 1 as well.
> > Thanks
> > Liz
>
> Not to be flippant, but I'd first like you to tell me why you or
> anyone should assume
> that the Christ hymn in Philllipains **does** make such an assumption.

The verses describe Jesus Christ as having thoughts prior to being born.

>
> As for GJohn, yes that **would** be, I fear, off topic. But just
> one hint, what is
> "with" God, and what is asserted as having the nature of God
> ("what the word was God
> was" to use C.H. Dodd's felicitous phrasing) is NOT the man
> Jesus, but the Word.,
> which from the point of view of the prologue of GJohn, only later
> comes to "dwells
> among us" in Jesus.

Then let's get back to 1 Cor. 8:6. What does this verse mean?
If Paul is saying it is Jesus, not Torah, then the talmudic legend asserts
the torah existed before creation.
I think that is what is being said in the prologue to John too, that it is
Jesus not torah. But the torah is prior to creation. It is from Prov. 8.
So why don't you think these verses assert Jesus' preexistence?

Liz

>





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