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  • From: "David C. Hindley" <dhindley AT csi.com>
  • To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Re: Quotations in the Apostolic Fathers
  • Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:56:53 -0400


Carlton Winbery <winberyc AT popalex1.linknet.net> wrote:

>>Dave, such an update [of your database] would be very useful. You may want
to get a copy of
the Oxford Committee work. The only copy I know about is in the Princeton
Seminary library. If someone else has a copy or has seen one in used books,
I'd like to know about it. I copied all references from this book but not
the texts involved.<<

I searched for it on Barnes & Noble's web site without even getting a hit in
the Out of Print section, much less the In Print section.

Similarly, J B Lightfoots' _Apostolic Fathers_ is available in three editions:

1) Apostolic Fathers
J. B. Lightfoot
Retail Price: $19.99
Our Price: $15.99 You Save: $4.00 (20%)
In-Stock: Ships within 24 hours
Format: Paperback, 2nd ed., 368pp.
ISBN: 0801021995
Publisher: Baker Books
Pub. Date: July 1998

2) Apostolic Fathers
J.B. B. Lightfoot (sic)
Retail Price: $99.95
Our Price: $69.96 You Save: $29.99 (30%)
Ships 3-5 weeks
Format: Hardcover, 3024pp.
ISBN: 0943575273
Publisher: Hendrickson Publishers, Incorporated
Pub. Date: June 1995
Edition Desc: 2ND

3) Apostolic Fathers - Patres Apostolici
Joseph B. Lightfoot (Translator)
Our Price: $518.70
Special Order: Ships 3-5 weeks
Format: Hardcover, 2940pp.
ISBN: 3487046873
Publisher: Lubrecht & Cramer, Ltd.
Pub. Date: January 1973
=====================
Amazon.com also provides the publisher's marketing blurb for #2 above as:

Reviews
The publisher, Baker Book House , October 1, 1998

"Recent years have witnessed an upsurge of interest in the writings of the
apostolic fathers," observes Michael Holmes. His revision of their writings--a
primary source for the study of early Christianity--is now available in
paperback.
This second edition of "The Apostolic Fathers", which includes only the
English text, is a revision of the English translation of the 1891 edition.
The editor has made changes "only as seemed required by considerations of
clarity, readability, and contemporary (American) English usage." When he has
significantly revised the original translation, he has noted the change in a
footnote.

"The task of revision," Holmes adds, "afforded an opportunity to take into
account new discoveries and insights that have enhanced our understanding of
Hellenistic and Greco-Roman culture." The second edition also includes an
introduction to each document. These offer students an assessment of each
writing's historical context, theological themes, and relevancy for
contemporary evangelicals.

Since many theologically or historically significant passages in "The
Apostolic Fathers" remain the subject of intense discussion, the editor has
also included extensive textual notes. The notes have been given whenever one
or more or a select group of English translations follows a reading different
from that adopted by the present text.

Gordon D. Fee: "Baker Book House and Michael Holmes are to be congratulated on
this new edition of Lightfoot's "Apostolic Fathers". It is a worthy successor
to Lightfoot, with new introductions that bring the discussions up to date and
enough revision of the translation to make it readable for a large audience.
One hopes such a readable and useful one-volume edition will create new
interest in this very important aspect of early Christian history."

James D. G. Dunn: "J. B. Lightfoot was probably the greatest English-language
analyst and exegete of earliest Christian texts. His work on the apostolic
fathers was among his most important contributions to Christian scholarship.
Michael Holmes has put a new generation of students in his debt by editing and
revising Lightfoot's English translations, their value enhanced by new
introductions, bibliographies, and notes."

Michael W. Holmes (Ph.D., Princeton Theological Seminary) is professor of
biblical studies at Bethel College. J. B. Lightfoot (1828-89) is widely
recognized as a leading New Testament and patristic scholar. In 1861, he was
named the Hulsean Professor of Divinity at Cambridge University, then Lady
Margaret Professor in 1875. J. R. Harmer served as domestic chaplain to Bishop
Lightfoot for five years before being appointed bishop of Rochester in 1905.
===============

It appears that #2 does not include the Greek text, but is updated with new
introductions, etc., so that it actually exceeds the length of the original. I
cannot tell if the introductions or commentary will include the tables
comparing, in Greek, each apparent quote found in the Fathers with the NT
text, as I have to admit I have not so much as looked at a copy of this for
years and cannot say I recall too much about its format, or which edition I
saw. Hopefully someone familiar with this can set me straight. The side by
side Greek comparisons are what I want to see. If it is available in
translation #2 above Ill be ordering it pronto.

As for The Oxford Commitee, I have run across some very nice books they have
published. Still, I do not hear them spoken about very much (actually, until
you mentioned it, never). Looks like I'll have to see if I can find a copy via
inter-library loan and do what you did ... copy what is important to me. When
the book is out of print, what can you do? Believe me, if I had a choice
between a copy and the original, I'd take the latter in a minute.

Again, to those who may have an interest in handy electronic search databases
of NT quotations in the Apostolic fathers, any suggestions regarding the way
to handle the following problems would be greatly appreciated (please direct
replied to me off list):

1) How to deal with the apparent gospel quotations that could have been
derived from more than one of the Synoptic Gospels. Also related to this is
the problem of how to deal with quotations from other books that deviate from
the GNT as we have it today.

2) How to organize the database (fields, attributes, relational vs flat,
etc) to get as much useful information as possible from the raw data.

3) Suggestions for the formatting of browse windows and reports.

Suggestions can be as ambitious as you dare.

Thanks all!!

Dave Hindley
Cleveland, Ohio, USA





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