Corpus-Paul

[Mike Myers <mmyers AT helium.biomol.uci.edu>]

Liz wrote:

Not only this, but also Paul's view of the Messiah.  To my mind Paul
introduced an entirely new concept of the role of the Messiah.  The 
notion that the death (or even life) of a messiah would render the 
law obsolete seems a curious, certainly non-Jewish, notion to me. It 
was certainly not held by the Qumran community.  Where does this 
idea come from?
****************************************************************

Good question.


Mark continued:

And it is the implications for how gentiles are viewed
that is the rub that sets this group apart on social terms (implied 
in 5:11; it is not for faith in Christ or not observing Law, but for 
not circumcising gentiles that Paul is persecuted by representatives 
of other Judaisms or Jewish interest groups).

Liz:

This is one issue that divides the Judaizing Christians I suppose 
from Paul. This is tangential to the issues which divide Christians 
from Jews it seems to me: the eternal validity of the law, and the 
role of the messiah.


****************************************************
When you refer to the eternal validity of the law, are you talking 
about this as to Jews then, or now -- or both? And by the law, do 
you mean the whole statutory thing, the 613 -- including all the 
Temple/sacrifice/offering legislation? Or, do you mean the law in 
the sense of Torah, guidance, instruction -- without its eternal 
LITERAL validity in that sense. 

Is there one view now in modern Judaism, much less then, about the 
role of the Messiah? Can you point out some commonalities in how 
this role is/was conveived, if so? 

Mike Myers
>From lizfried AT umich.edu Wed May 26 23:09:48 1999
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From: "Liz Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Subject: RE: Gal 2:16 (Liz)
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 23:10:51 -0400
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> From: Mike Myers [mailto:mmyers AT helium.biomol.uci.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 9:56 PM

>
> Liz wrote:
>
> Not only this, but also Paul's view of the Messiah.   Where does this
> idea come from?
> ****************************************************************
>
> Good question.
Got an answer???
>
>

> Liz:
>
> This is tangential to the issues which divide Christians
> from Jews it seems to me: the eternal validity of the law, and the
> role of the messiah.
>
>
> ****************************************************
> When you refer to the eternal validity of the law, are you talking
> about this as to Jews then, or now -- or both? And by the law, do
> you mean the whole statutory thing, the 613 -- including all the
> Temple/sacrifice/offering legislation? Or, do you mean the law in
> the sense of Torah, guidance, instruction -- without its eternal
> LITERAL validity in that sense.
Then I meant *then,* now I mean now too, since you ask.
Yes, the whole kit 'n kaboodle, literally, all 613, including the temple
sacrifice.
(Btw, the 613 is a myth. Everytime you get a list, you get a different set.)


>
> Is there one view now in modern Judaism, much less then, about the
> role of the Messiah? Can you point out some commonalities in how
> this role is/was conveived, if so?

I don't know the Talmudic view of the Messiah. I haven't really studied the
view of  the Messiahs at Qumran either. That should be pretty easy to do. In
my personal opinion (without having made a study of the situation), the role
of the Messiah is based on the Cyrus songs in Isaiah. This is speculation on
my part. The job description of the Messiah as revealed in the Cyrus songs
is to end the diaspora, rebuild Jerusalem, the cities of Judah, and the
temple.(Is. 44:23-45:8).

The fact that Akiba viewed Bar Kochba as the Messiah suggests that this may
have been a (the?) view of the Messiah at that time (+132).

Liz
>
> Mike Myers
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