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  • From: Jim West <jwest AT highland.net>
  • To: Corpus-paul <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: Re: Paul's "dying for us" language
  • Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:06:44 -0500


At 11:46 AM 3/31/99 -0600, you wrote:

>Is it possible, then, that the claim "Christ died for us" = "it is JESUS'
>style
>of faithfulness which atones and forestalls God's judgment upon the
nation", not
>Pheneas'/Judas Maccabeus', and that what Paul is trying to do in making the
>claim is to emphasize that of *all* the deaths (and the style of life
leading to
>it) that have a claim to be atoning (i.e. lead Israel out of wrath) it is
>*Jesus'* not Phineas' that really does so? Phineas' will only bring on God's
>wrath. Any thoughts on this?
>
>Yours,
>
>Jeffrey

hmmmm.... VERY intriguing Jeff. This presupposes a pacifist Jesus though
doesn't it? Further, it presupposes that Paul is familiar with this
pacifist- which seems to me unlikely. After all, Jesus is clearly not quite
so much the pacifist in portions of the earliest tradition (i.e., "go and
sell what you have and buy a sword..." which I take as an ipsissima verba).
Paul seldom makes use of the "pacifist" sayings of Jesus (I don't recall any
examples in fact). If Paul really thought that way (as you suggest, quite
brilliantly) why, oh why did he not use some Jesus tradition to support his
view?

Further, your suggestion raises the question of audience doesnt it? Why
would gentiles living in thessalonica be interested in events in Judea- in
the method of eschatological redemption- ? If you are right, why doesn't
Paul write to Jews in Judea? Or did he and that stuff is just lost? Or not
preserved? If not preserved, why not? Did it not fit in with the "church
triumphant" and its theology?

Very interesting suggestion Jeff--- well worthy of some serious thought.

(I must confess though, I see Paul more as a Hellenist interested in
redemption in kind with the mystery religions).

Best,

Jim
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Jim West, ThD
Petros Baptist Church- Pastor
Quartz Hill School of Theology- Adjunct Prof. of Bible

fax- 978-231-5986
email- jwest AT highland.net
web page- http://web.infoave.net/~jwest





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