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Subject: Compost Teas: 24 hour, EM, IM, BD & fermented plant extracts

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Chronological Thread  
  • From: "William F. Brinton" <wbrinton AT woodsend.org>
  • To: compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: [Compostteas] Re: Safety and E coli
  • Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 11:54:54 -0700

It is inaccurate to state that if compost tea is "aerobic" then there is no
risk of E. coli or other potential pathogens for that matter. Once you have
added sugars and molasses, etc. etc. the tea "regresses" to a condition of
like fresh manure/compost, with high BOD. This by the way is one reason for the new exclusion
by the USDA-National Organic Program of such "re-fermented" products.
E. coli is facultative and therefore can grow under any condition especially
aerobic when lots of available sugars are present.  The best precaution is to only
use proven matured composts that have gone thought a proper and long
process but are not so done as to contain little microbial activity. Do not add any
readily available sugars etc unless research has documented that this is required for
the particular host-infection situation.

An acquaintance of mine recently got a severe eye infection from spraying compost
tea and what the doctors wanted to know was: where did you get so much bacteria at
once in the eye? Please be careful and especially watch the "myth of aerobic" that has
been propagated in the country.

Dr. William Brinton
Woods End Laboratory
 
 

   1. Safety (wpb AT sympatico.ca)
   2. Re: Safety (Frank Teuton)
   4. Re: Safety (Scott Alexander)
   5. Re: Safety (wpb AT sympatico.ca)
   6. Re: Safety (wpb AT sympatico.ca)
 
_--__--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:12:54 -0700
From: wpb AT sympatico.ca
Reply-To: wpb AT sympatico.ca
To: compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [Compostteas] Safety

Hello, I'm new to the list, and as a commercial grape grower, would like
to know what precautions, if any are being taken, while everyone is
spraying their ct ? With the risk of ecoli, and who knows what else,
since this isn't an exact science, I would be hard pressed not to wear
the same air-supplied helmet, Tyvek suit, rubber gloves, etc..  that
would be worn with chemical pesticides. Any opininions?

Thanks
Bill Baranick

--__--__--

Message: 2
From: "Frank Teuton" <fteuton AT sympatico.ca>
To: <wpb AT sympatico.ca>, <compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [Compostteas] Safety
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 13:50:30 -0400

Hi Bill,

The risk of E. coli in compost tea is, to be blunt, overblown as far as I
have read and understood.

If the start materials are free of E. coli in significant amounts, and the
conditions maintained in an aerobic state, then the resultant tea ought to
be basically free of E. coli in significant amounts. I'd be more worried
about washing my hands, and all the wild and domesticated animals, than
about compost tea.

Re other biological and biologically derived materials you might encouter
from compost tea spraying, there must certainly be many of them, eh?

Whether or not any of them, or the whole soup taken as a whole, constitute a
health risk or a health benefit, is up in the air, at this particular point
in time.

Having exposed myself rather often now in the last few weeks, I notice that
when the prevailing winds blow a fair amount of Merry Microbe Mist over my
end of the tractor, and get it into my hair and on my skin, that I notice a
certain softness and shininess in the hair, and a rosy feeling of well being
in the skin.

Since what we are doing is the intentional creation of what we want to be
beneficial bioaerosols of compost organisms for our plants, it is not
completely unreasonable to look into the problems and possibilities of
bioaerosols generally.

This site offers some info:

http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/LEACentral/Organics/SLOResearch/ScopeWrk.htm

In the past, compost bioaerosol issues have been basically about Aspergillus
fumigatus near composting facilities, which can cause problems for immune
deficient individuals (Boy in the bubble, AIDS patients, etc.)

Since compost tea spraying is in its infancy, there has likely not been
sufficient experience to generate data regarding workers who are exposed to
tea bioaerosols on a daily basis and without protection, as to either risks
or benefits.

But, if you have the equipment already and are using tea on a scale such
that you need to be applying it for a large amount of time, limiting your
exposure could be a prudent thing to do.

Just enough to soften your hair and keep your skin youthful, I suggest...:-)

Hope that helps,

Frank Teuton

----- Original Message -----
From: <wpb AT sympatico.ca>
To: <compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 9:12 PM
Subject: [Compostteas] Safety

> Hello, I'm new to the list, and as a commercial grape grower, would like
> to know what precautions, if any are being taken, while everyone is
> spraying their ct ? With the risk of ecoli, and who knows what else,
> since this isn't an exact science, I would be hard pressed not to wear
> the same air-supplied helmet, Tyvek suit, rubber gloves, etc..  that
> would be worn with chemical pesticides. Any opininions?
>
> Thanks
> Bill Baranick
>

--__--__--

Message: 3
From: Lmvine1 AT cs.com
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:56:33 EDT
Subject: Re: [Compostteas] Mycorrhizal spores
To: lcharles AT webfront.net.au, compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org

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In a message dated 6/10/02 11:46:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lcharles AT webfront.net.au writes:

> In the wheat section its recommended to seed dress with compost tea and
> mycorrhizal fungi spores - sounds good - do we buy these or is there some
> way to grow them.

I had a soil bio test done by SFI and it showed very low Mycorrhizal fungi.
In one of the subsequent soil drench teas I used BioGrow Endo-Micronized from
Micorrhizal Applications http://www.mycorrhizae.com/index.html

I intend to do another soil test in about a month to see the effectiveness of
the CT soil program on the mycorrhizae and other soil organisms.

Dan Lynch
Long Mountain Vineyard

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 6/10/02 11:46:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lcharles AT webfront.net.au writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">In the wheat section its recommended to seed dress with compost tea and mycorrhizal fungi spores - sounds good - do we buy these or is there some way to grow them. </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>I had a soil bio test done by SFI and it showed very low Mycorrhizal fungi. &nbsp;In one of the subsequent soil drench teas I used BioGrow Endo-Micronized from Micorrhizal Applications http://www.mycorrhizae.com/index.html
<BR>
<BR>I intend to do another soil test in about a month to see the effectiveness of the CT soil program on the mycorrhizae and other soil organisms.
<BR>
<BR>Dan Lynch
<BR>Long Mountain Vineyard</FONT></HTML>

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Message: 4
From: "Scott Alexander" <daylily AT bigpond.com>
To: <compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [Compostteas] Safety
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:38:53 +1000

> Hello, I'm new to the list, and as a commercial grape grower, would like
> to know what precautions, if any are being taken, while everyone is
> spraying their ct ?

Bill - my CT smells so nice I have to stop myself from drinking it! And i've
grown at least an inch since using it monthly to control rust on my
daylilies :-)

Scott

--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:51:18 -0700
From: wpb AT sympatico.ca
Reply-To: wpb AT sympatico.ca
To: Frank Teuton <fteuton AT sympatico.ca>
CC: compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [Compostteas] Safety

Thanks for the input. Totally out of character for, me anyhow, I left
off the "space helmet" while spraying last night.....first time with ct.
Now I have some eye irritation and such. I got a light misting turning
into the next row. Skin/eye contact and inhalation were/are my concerns
at this point.
Just don't want to be on the receiving end of a bio-aerosol gone bad

Just enough to soften your hair and keep your skin youthful, I suggest...:-)

Sounds like you have the home version of oil of Ole, and Dove dish
washing soap all in one  ........but does it keep you regular?  :-)

Bill

--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:03:28 -0700
From: wpb AT sympatico.ca
Reply-To: wpb AT sympatico.ca
To: Scott Alexander <daylily AT bigpond.com>
CC: compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [Compostteas] Safety

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That's encouraging Scott, think it'll grow hair? :-)

Scott Alexander wrote:

>>Hello, I'm new to the list, and as a commercial grape grower, would like
>>to know what precautions, if any are being taken, while everyone is
>>spraying their ct ?
>>
>
>Bill - my CT smells so nice I have to stop myself from drinking it! And i've
>grown at least an inch since using it monthly to control rust on my
>daylilies :-)
>
>Scott
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Compostteas mailing list
>Compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/compostteas
>

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<html>
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<body>
That's encouraging Scott, think it'll grow hair? :-)<br>
<br>
Scott Alexander wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:006501c211a0$1fcf15e0$4c668a90@daylily">
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <pre wrap="">Hello, I'm new to the list, and as a commercial grape grower, would like<br>to know what precautions, if any are being taken, while everyone is<br>spraying their ct ?<br></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre wrap=""><!----><br>Bill - my CT smells so nice I have to stop myself from drinking it! And i've<br>grown at least an inch since using it monthly to control rust on my<br>daylilies :-)<br><br>Scott<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Compostteas mailing list<br><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org">Compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org</a><br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/compostteas">http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/compostteas</a><br><br></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    </body>
    </html>

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--__--__--

Message: 7
From: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff AT gardener.com>
To: <compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:15:06 -0700
Subject: [Compostteas] fungi??????

I am desperately seeking fungi and know that most of you are as well.

You can tell I just got back a report for what was really a humic acid based
tea ie that was my food source--2 kinds, and some kelp and some Aloe. These
are all fungal foods. O.K. I know my compost is admittedly notoriously low
in fungi at times. However, I get great bacteria, but low fungi and this has
to stop! I want to be able to manipulate the soil foodweb a bit and not be
limited to bacteria or balanced teas.

Others have expressed fungal frustrations as well. And, I have never heard
of anyone with a problem producing bacterial teas.

So I ask two questions to the group.

First, what has worked to increase fungi in your teas?

Second, what have people tested? Anyone tried JUST EQUISTUM or JUST BANANA
PEELS or SHREDDED WHEAT?  or just worm castings or just peanut butter?  We
clearly have tested the major fungal components of compost because what goes
in is what comes out, but is there something else out there which does for
fungi what molassas does for bacteria?  If there is, let's perfect it
quickly.

Comments PLEASE!~

Cheers,

Jeff

______________________________________________
PLANT A ROW FOR THE HUNGRY: Through PAR, over 3 million pounds of food have
been donated by home gardeners like you to feed the hungry. Ask me how you
can join the effort.

--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "D" <madhava AT fidalgo.net>
Reply-to: madhava AT fidalgo.net
To: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff AT gardener.com>, <compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 20:46:25 +0800
Subject: Re: [Compostteas] fungi??????

>Jeff,

COuld it be your brewer?  What are you brewing with?

Daniel

I am desperately seeking fungi and know that most of you are as well.
>
>You can tell I just got back a report for what was really a humic acid based

>tea ie that was my food source--2 kinds, and some kelp and some Aloe. These

>are all fungal foods. O.K. I know my compost is admittedly notoriously low

>in fungi at times. However, I get great bacteria, but low fungi and this has

>to stop! I want to be able to manipulate the soil foodweb a bit and not be

>limited to bacteria or balanced teas.
>
>Others have expressed fungal frustrations as well. And, I have never heard

>of anyone with a problem producing bacterial teas.
>
>So I ask two questions to the group.
>
>First, what has worked to increase fungi in your teas?
>
>Second, what have people tested? Anyone tried JUST EQUISTUM or JUST BANANA

>PEELS or SHREDDED WHEAT?  or just worm castings or just peanut butter?  We

>clearly have tested the major fungal components of compost because what goes

>in is what comes out, but is there something else out there which does for

>fungi what molassas does for bacteria?  If there is, let's perfect it
>quickly.
>
>Comments PLEASE!~
>
>Cheers,
>
>Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________
>PLANT A ROW FOR THE HUNGRY: Through PAR, over 3 million pounds of food have

>been donated by home gardeners like you to feed the hungry. Ask me how you

>can join the effort.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Compostteas mailing list
>Compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/compostteas
>
>

http://www.fidalgo.net/mail/

--__--__--

Message: 9
From: "D" <madhava AT fidalgo.net>
To: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff AT gardener.com>, <compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [Compostteas] fungi??????
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:38:17 -0700

Jeff,

There is a landscape company in this area that makes CT using the Earth
brewer (100 gallon) the only food they use is molasses and kelp.  They use a
local compost that is excellent, one of the best made.

They get excellent fungi counts just with molasses, kelp and that great
compost

Daniel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff AT gardener.com>
To: <compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 6:15 PM
Subject: [Compostteas] fungi??????

> I am desperately seeking fungi and know that most of you are as well.
>
> You can tell I just got back a report for what was really a humic acid
based
> tea ie that was my food source--2 kinds, and some kelp and some Aloe.
These
> are all fungal foods. O.K. I know my compost is admittedly notoriously low
> in fungi at times. However, I get great bacteria, but low fungi and this
has
> to stop! I want to be able to manipulate the soil foodweb a bit and not be
> limited to bacteria or balanced teas.
>
> Others have expressed fungal frustrations as well. And, I have never heard
> of anyone with a problem producing bacterial teas.
>
> So I ask two questions to the group.
>
> First, what has worked to increase fungi in your teas?
>
> Second, what have people tested? Anyone tried JUST EQUISTUM or JUST BANANA
> PEELS or SHREDDED WHEAT?  or just worm castings or just peanut butter?  We
> clearly have tested the major fungal components of compost because what
goes
> in is what comes out, but is there something else out there which does for
> fungi what molassas does for bacteria?  If there is, let's perfect it
> quickly.
>
> Comments PLEASE!~
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> PLANT A ROW FOR THE HUNGRY: Through PAR, over 3 million pounds of food
have
> been donated by home gardeners like you to feed the hungry. Ask me how you
> can join the effort.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Compostteas mailing list
> Compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/compostteas
>

--__--__--

Message: 10
From: "Jeff Lowenfels" <jeff AT gardener.com>
To: "D" <madhava AT fidalgo.net>, <compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: RE: [Compostteas] fungi??????
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 22:11:55 -0700

Daniel,

I didn't make myself clear. What I am interested in stimulating is a
discussion of what makes fungi grow in tea.  I don't think there is a person
on this list who can't make decent, even high bacteria tea with just compost
and molasses. This is not true when it comes to making a fungi tea.   Is it
really the brewer? That is not the answer I am looking for!  Isn't there
something that will make fungi grow as easily as molasses makes bacteria
grow no matter what kind of brewer one employs?

I suspect the landscape company to which you rightly refer has something
special in their compost or in their tea ingredients. It is rightly
protected. This leads me to the second half of my question which is what has
been tested and what should be tested?

So I guess I am asking what works best for others when it comes to fungi?
What have people tried so I don't repeat their failures!

Cheers,

Jeff L

______________________________________________
PLANT A ROW FOR THE HUNGRY: Through PAR, over 3 million pounds of food have
been donated by home gardeners like you to feed the hungry. Ask me how you
can join the effort.

--__--__--

Message: 11
From: "Gina Kelsch" <gina AT hendrikus.com>
To: <Compostteas AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 07:03:31 -0700
Subject: [Compostteas] listserve

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Jeff:

Could you remove my name from your listserve mailing?  I've taken over =
another position in the company and believe that our Business Manager =
should be signing up with her email address. =20

Thanks!

Gina Kelsch
Hendrikus Schraven=20

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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080>Jeff:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080>Could you remove my name from your listserve=20
mailing?&nbsp; I've taken over another position in the company and =
believe that=20
our Business Manager should be signing up with her email address.&nbsp;=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080>Thanks!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080>Gina Kelsch</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080>Hendrikus Schraven </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Compostteas mailing list
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End of Compostteas Digest

-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
William F. Brinton, Jr.
Woods End Research
PO Box 297
20 Old Rome Road
Mt Vernon ME 04352 
207.293.2457 207.293.2488 fx
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 


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