Development of Creative Commons licenses

[drew Roberts <zotz AT 100jamz.com>]

On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 20:29:59 -0400, Anthony <osm AT inbox.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:04 AM, drew Roberts <zotz AT 100jamz.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday 24 April 2012 07:51:00 Anthony wrote:
>>> If the original author can't exercise his right to the commercial
>>> option, presumably s/he can't permit anyone else to use the work
>>> commercially either.  So this means, for instance, s/he can't put the
>>> work up on a facebook page, since facebook profits off facebook pages,
>>> right?
>>
>> Wait. Are you maintinging that only the copyright holder can put NC 
>> licensed
>> works on Facebook? (Because facebook makes money, not because of their 
>> TOS.)
> 
> It is my understanding that the NC licenses do not allow you to
> distribute NC images on a page where you make money off advertising.

OK, so *I* can't put an NC image on a page where *I* make money from
advertising. But in the case you name, facebook would be making the
money, not me. If facebook did not have a TOS or had one that did not
demand rights be given from account holders in the case of cc licensed
works. I think it could fly.

> This is what Facebook does.  So they can't do it based on the NC
> license, only with the permission of the copyright holder.

As I say, facebook is more like a hoster for someone else's page and
they put up the NC image and do not make money from it.
> 
> Is there something with this analysis which you disagree with?

I think the analysis is flawed. I think you may reach the correct
outcome for the wrong reasons though. I think you might not even be able
to put up a BY-SA derivative picture you create on facebook either and
not because advertising money is being made.
> 
>> Are you maintaining that a person cannot take and NC book to a printer and 
>> pay
>> to have 10 copies printed to give away as gifts?
> 
> Who is making the copies?

The print shop makes the copies for / at the direction of the customer
who pays for them. The customer then takes them and gives them away as
gifts.

  If it is the printer, then the printer
> needs permission, and NC does not give that permission.  If it's the
> person hiring the printer, then they don't need permission.

You are saying that they, the printer, don't need permission in this
instance, right?

  I could
> see it argued either way.  It probably depends on the facts of the
> situation.
> 
> In any case, practically speaking, what's the difference between a
> person taking an NC book to a printer and paying to have 10 copies
> printed, and a printer offering copies of an NC book made-to-order?

Oh the joys of the NC clause.

> Is there an actual argument that one of these is exploiting the author
> (*), and the other isn't?
> 
> (*) Or whatever the argument is in favor of NC.

Let's break it down further. Let's assume a DIY space where you can go
in and rent the necessary copy / binding / etc. machines and make your
own 10 copies of an NC book to give away to friends. Can the space not
charge you?
> 
>> If so, let's discuss, if not, you have the answer to the question you 
>> posed.
> 
> Let's discuss.

Does that start the discussion off on a good footing?
> 
>> When someone makes a copy of an NC work and gives it to someone else, lots 
>> of
>> people get and income and may make a profit. It is just that the person
>> making the copy does not get the revenue and the person getting the copy 
>> may
>> not pay anything in the process.
> 
> It is my understanding that one cannot make copies of an NC work and
> give it to someone else, if they know that someone else is going to
> make a profit.

I don't need to argue that point, just stipulate that they don't know.

>  That would mean that their copying was "directed
> toward commercial advantage or private monetary compensation".
> 
> But maybe I'm wrong about this.  This is what I was told when I
> questioned whether or not it was okay for me to make 1000 copies of an
> NC work, and give them to a friend, who then sold them.

The one that first through me for a loop with NC was being told that a
corporation could never make copies of an NC work because everything
they ever do is by definition commercial.

all the best,

drew