Development of Creative Commons licenses

[paola.dimaio AT gmail.com]

Hi PT

 Though
> desirable, such clause raises a series of problems as many of the
> discussants have already indicated. I m summing up some of them:

well, the lack of such clause is going to raise even larger problems

>
> - you cannot just add such a clause or make changes to the CC licensing
> terms by yourself.

Yes I can. Watch me.

 You cannot not in the sense that it would be illegal, but
> in the sense that it would place your "customized" licence outside the CC
> system, i.e. it would render it impossible to interact with the SA licences.
> - most legal problems CC licences have relate to the interpretation of terms
> such as "non-commercial" which are not used by national Copyright Laws.

Not necessarily. If the change is straighforrwad and just adding a
condition it does not change any part of the agreeent itself. i say
that the change that I propose will not affect the compatibility


The
> introduction of yet another difficult to clearly define term is not going to
> solve any problems.

I agree there

The Virgin case indicates precisely that.
> - Some of the functions that an "ethical clause" would serve are already
> covered by Moral Rights [contained in v.3.0 of the licences] or other
> national laws that are of obligatory nature and hence there is no point
> mentioning them in an already complicated licence.
> - There are other related to the "ethical lause" issues that have been
> already covered on this list this year and have to do with publicity rights,
> release forms etc and indicate that before suggesting yet another clause, it
> is always useful to see if there are other means available to achieve the
> same objectives.

sure
>
> To return to the Virgin case, in my opinion, there are two things it shows:
> - we still have to work hard on educating CC licence users and clarifying
> ourselves some of the terms used
> - what the Virgin case indicates is not a CC problem but a broader Copyright
> problem: with the proliferation of creators and disseminators, what in the
> past would have been a specialized issue involving a small no of
> specialists, it is now part of daily routines involving everyone.
>
> I m expecting to see far more related cases in the future, with or without
> CC.

agreee
>
> Thanks
> pRo
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Karl Ebener" <myonlyb AT vollbio.de>
> To: "Discussion on the Creative Commons license drafts"
> <cc-licenses AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 9:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [cc-licenses] Lawsuit over Virgin Mobile's and Ethical Use
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I would like to support Drew as for a German Law-point-of-view:
> > Following German law, the CC are general terms and conditions and
> > therefore must be very specific so that the user can easily understand
> > what is allowed and what is not. NC is complicated enough, but I think
> > that most judges will be confident that they can interpret this
> > theirselves since commercial is a term used in other areas of law as well.
> > But the term "ethical" is subject to too much change and interpretation
> > and would most certainly render the clause void...
> >
> > Yours,
> > Karl
> >
> > drew Roberts schrieb:
> >> On Friday 28 September 2007 11:47 pm, paola.dimaio AT gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> Charles
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Can you give a complete definition with what "ethical" means?
> >>>>
> >>> Well, we are still discussing what 'commercial' means, right?
> >>> Even commercial is not that straightforward
> >>>
> >>> We have non commercial use, not better specified
> >>> Then we can also have 'ethical' use, and work it out later
> >>>
> >>
> >> Please no. It will make all the CC licenses basically unuseable. And
> >> certainly
> >> not for any works that do not contain visual representations of peoples
> >> likenesses. And also especially not for BY amd BY-SA licenses. I
> >> personally
> >> would not object as strongly to such use in anyhting with NC or ND even
> >> though I think it ill advised there as well.
> >>
> >> There is a point in a free society where we need to do good by our fellow
> >> man
> >> and leave them to be responsible for their abuses.
> >>
> >> Even the Free Software folks, who many might inagine would want anti
> >> military
> >> bits in, left them out to keep the code Free.
> >>
> >> Now, if you or someone else can come up will clean language that somehow
> >> will
> >> make this work without all the confusion...
> >>
> >>> It's not so difficult. It's a simple condition that allows to use CC
> >>> licensed work only
> >>> if it is not used for (see annex). In the annex you can put what you
> >>> want
> >>>
> >>
> >> This would kill any SA sharing and re-use.
> >>
> >>> The work covered under this licenses, and any parts thereof, cannot be
> >>> used in conjunction with any of the following usages
> >>>
> >>> - illegal activities (any country)
> >>>
> >>
> >> And this would stop someone why? Is a person willing to abuse a child
> >> gonn
> >> have second thoughts about abusing your copyright?
> >>
> >>
> >>> - activities against human rights charter
> >>> - activities that exploit and abuse people especially children
> >>>
> >>
> >> See above.
> >>
> >>> - to sell unhealthy product and products that harm the environment
> >>>
> >>
> >> Now, this may be possible. A clause to the effect, that commercial does
> >> not
> >> cover "endorsement" uses perhaps? Especially with respect to peoples
> >> images
> >> again.
> >>
> >>> etcetera
> >>>
> >>> Any usage that is not in the black list, would not require permission
> >>> Any usage that is in the black list, is prohibited
> >>>
> >>
> >> If it is a standard back list... But if each person gets to put in their
> >> own
> >> back list... Kiss SA goodbye...
> >>
> >>> simple as that
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Unless you are using the word "ethical" is way that I'm unfamiliar
> >>>> with... "ethics" are rules that a person voluntarily chooses to
> >>>> follow.  And which rules do and don't make up their "ethical code" is
> >>>> up to them.
> >>>>
> >>> I chose not to drink coke, and to to eat McDonalds hamburgers, and not
> >>> to promote
> >>> pornography and belligerant and slanderous websites, and not to do
> >>> phisihing scams nor hack other people property and generally be
> >>> respectful and kind
> >>>
> >>
> >> All well and good.
> >>
> >>> and I am also responsible for the work that I produce not be used
> >>> against my principles
> >>>
> >>
> >> Keep it to yourself then. In a Free society, you are not responsible for
> >> this.
> >> Those who do the dirty works are responsible.
> >>
> >>>> (In other words... for each person... what is and isn't ethical is
> >>>> different.)
> >>>>
> >>> sure - but we all agree in principle on certain points, right?
> >>>
> >>
> >> If only...
> >>
> >>>> Now... the problem with putting an "ethical" clause into a license is
> >>>> that if you do NOT completely define and explicitly list what the
> >>>> rules that make up your "ethical code", then things are completely
> >>>> ambiguous.  And a person won't know what they can and can't do.
> >>>>
> >>> agreed. Let me start working on a an ANNEX
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>>
> >>> Paola
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>>     Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc. <http://ChangeLog.ca/>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>                  Vlog Razor... Vlogging News
> >>>>                     http://vlograzor.com/
> >>>>
> >>
> >> all the best,
> >>
> >> drew
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> >>
> >>
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-- 
Paola Di Maio
School of IT
www.mfu.ac.th
*********************************************