Baslinux mailing list

[Lee Forrest <lforrestster AT gmail.com>]

Hi Sindi,

On Tue, Nov 21, 2006 at 06:11:03PM +0000, sindi keesan wrote:
> >> optional-image-downloading browser
> >
> > Opera, links2, Netscape 3.04 (BL1)
> 
> I compiled a lynx 2.8.51 that should work with BL3 with no libc upgrade 
> (you need to add a libdns to use it online) and David Moberg compiled a 
> uclibc version 2.8.6 but it seems to crash a lot more (buggy source code).
> Use with a viewer.

Sounds good.

> >
> >> vi, compiler, screen
> >
> > Slackware 4.0.  There have been previous posts
> > about what packages are needed for compiling.
> 
> I compiled a busybox 1.1.10 (I forget if it needs to be used with kernel 
> 2.4.31 which I also compiled) which includes a small vi.

Does it do macros?

> >> pdf viewer/creator
> >
> > Slackware 4.0 has a pdf package, but it is not
> > up-to-date 

They never are. PDF keeps changing, apparently to ensure
that everyone downloads and instals the latest version,
regularly, which is suspicious.
 
Who knows what's in those non-open-source executables?

> and is unable to display some pdfs.
>
> > I use xpdf 3.01 on BL2.
>
> xpdf 3 does not work with the BL3 X11, but I posted at my site
> a minimal package of the ghostscript fonts and a config file
> based on them which you need to add in order to use the other
> parts of this package with BL3. And also discussed this on the
> list a while back. pdftotext (for info only) and pdfimages
> (useful to view files that got scanned and made into pdf)
> probably work without this package, but pdftopbm requires the
> fonts to produce the pbm image. Convert the pdf file to a pbm
> file and view with zgv (does xli also view pbm files?).

That looks promising. But zgv is the only app I've ever used that
crashed my box regularly. Never could figure out why, even after
exchanging many mails with the maintainer.

Maybe it's different on BL. Hope so.

> In about 50MB I have BL3 with three browsers, svgalib, zgv,
> xpdf without X, kermit, and a few other things. Abiword can
> be added but then you need to set up non-text printing (with
> ghostscript). I also added a swapfile twice the size of my 12MB
> RAM.

12MB RAM!? 

Do you have to pedal it? :-)

Seriously: I'm impressed.

>
> >> imagemagick
> >
> > There is a package in Slackware 4.0.
>
> netpbm for BL3 is smaller and faster - it converts between
> various image formats, crops, rotates, resizes, and even prints
> directly to an Epson (black only) or HP Deskjet (including
> color) without ghostscript. I posted a package with sample
> scripts for printing.

That sounds promising. No way am I going to install ghostscript.
That arcane monster has always driven me nuts.

> >> Sure wish that I could integrate the xserver and screen. I
> >> love screen
> >
> > I think Sindi has done a lot with screen.
>
> I have used the basics. It is not easy to learn. Use it in CLI.
> You should not need it in X. You can cut and paste without a
> mouse.

Not like screen does. It can do things like isolate columns and
append to the buffer and join lines with spaces or commas, and
copy entire files into the paste buffer and search while in paste
mode. All from the KB. Vi keybindings.

> splitvt (comes with Slackware) is smaller and simpler.

I rarely use the split-screen capabilities of screen, preferring
to use another window instead. You can switch back and forth like
lightning.

And it will network better than X.

My recent version on debian is only 230K.

My new w3m displays inline images in webpages in the screen ptys,
which is promising, although it seems to need X to do this.

I'm just amazed that it can be done at all. 

> >> which is a better window manager and networker than anything
> >> X
> >
> > Sindi has done some minimalistic stuff with X too.
>
> I extracted the minimum libraries and posted about this. You
> can get by with about 1MB of libraries instead of 10MB of
> packages. startx is not needed, use xinit directly.

I'll be reading that post/thread in the Archives.

> >> Presently, I run screen in a tiny x-terminal-emulator in a
> >> tiny window manager.
> >
> > I don't think you'll get anything tinier than the swm in BL3.
> > It's even smaller if you leave out the optional menu        .
>
> You can run X-based programs without a window manager to reduce
>RAM usage, but some, like Opera, lose functionality (you cannot
>change focus via keyboard). This has been discussed on the list
>but perhaps Steven could illustrate again for Xvesa and links2
>-g at various resolutions and color depths. I forget how to do
>it without rxvt.

That sounds interesting. I'd like to hear more about images
without X, too.

The only reason I use X is for images, although, like James
Miller, I mostly 'surf' in text-mode. If I can do images without
X, (including editing them) it's history.

I also need a browser that will number the links for menu-like
selection. Moving the cursor via keyboard for this purpose is too
clumsy: The use of Tab/Shift-Tab is screwed up by frames.

But first-things-first: I haven't got networking up yet! :-/.

Cheers,

Lee