Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Nir cohen - Prof. Mat." <nir AT ccet.ufrn.br>]

karl,

i agree (to disagree)

nir cohen

On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:17:43 -0700, K Randolph wrote
> Nir:
> 
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Nir cohen - Prof. Mat. <nir AT ccet.ufrn.br> 
> wrote:
> 
> karl,
> 
> i admit that "expand" and "hit repeatedly" are related ideas and it is easy 
> to see which "came first".but the etymology used in most of these citations 
> is more directly related to "hit repeatedly".
> 
> 
> The word in Biblical Hebrew for “hit repeatedly” is כתת KTT. Used of metal 
> smithing where hitting repeatedly is part of the job.
> 
> in 2 sam 22:43 the idea is that of repeated beating/hammering/smiting and 
> not of expanding: 
> 
> (NIV) They cried for help, but there was no one to save them—
>     to the Lord, but he did not answer.
> 43 I beat them as fine as the dust of the earth;
>     I pounded and trampled them like mud in the streets.They cried for 
> help, but there was no one to save them—
>     to the Lord, but he did not answer.
> 43 I beat them as fine as the dust of the earth;
>     I pounded and trampled them like mud in the streets.
> 
> 
> v.43, “I make them a mist as the dust of the earth (a cloud of dust), as 
> the mud outside I grind them fine, I spread them out.” Where is the 
> repeated hitting in the use of “spread out”?
> 
> in job 37:18 LEHARQY( is the verb associated with RAQI(, as e.g. in english 
> combinations such as sky-rocketing orsky-scraper. thus, i see this is a 
> secondary use of the word, i.e. once RAQY( was fixed as "sky" then LEHARQY( 
> meansto take off/fly/spacewalk/launch. again, i do not see that as 
> indicating expansion.
> 
> in particular, with all the difficulties associated with the word $XQ, the 
> expression in job TARQI( LA$XAQYM can hardly be translated as "expand to 
> the skies". the way i see it, it simply means "travel with him to the sky 
> so as to tell how he does these things".
> 
> 
> I wonder what etymology you are talking about. “You cause his people to 
> spread out to the mists”
> 
> the remaining of the citations agrees with craftsmanship and hammering, 
> including "ROQE( H))RC in the first few citations you mentioned.
> 
> 
> Only if you start out with the presupposiiton that it is connected with 
> hammering.  
> 
> see also the related term RDD.
> 
> 
> RDD too is connected with the idea of spreading out, such as clothing. 
> Nothing with pounding.
> 
> nir cohen
> 
> 
> This could be a place where we need to agree to disagree, as I don’t see 
> what you’re seeing at all. I see no evidence in etymology that supports the 
> idea of hammering as being the basic idea. 
> 
> Karl W. Randolph.

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