Biblical Hebrew Forum

[David Kolinsky <yishalom AT sbcglobal.net>]

Karl and Randall,
Randall:  I agree with you absolutely, only those roots that are R-(-H  =  
R-(-Y are candidates for  (רעיון) Ra(YoN.  I became aware of that while I was 
writing, but was too busy to fix the post.  I did feel that all of the words 
that I expounded upon was relevant to the discussion.  I do not agree however 
that any root in Hebrew with Tsade  that may have changed to Ayin in Aramaic 
is relevant.  I do not believe that Aramaic predated Hebrew.  I believe that 
they evolved separately along their own lines.  Unlike Karl, I strongly 
believe that cognates from other semitic languages can be used to INFORM 
Hebrew etymology, but I do not believe that it is determinative ie) it must 
be taken with a grain of salt.
Karl:  For the most part, I also rely on the Tanakh to inform my 
understanding of Biblical Hebrew.So here is a list from the Tanakh
1b to shout (Is16:10) 2b - Ra(a( (רעע) - to VIBRATE (move back and forth),    
       shatter / impair (Jr15:12) ,           be broken down 
(Jr15:12)(Jb34:24) 3a - Ra( (רע) - perception, thought  (Ps139:2,17) 
3b - Ra(aH (רעה) - to welcome, befriend, desire, take delight in, enjoy       
MaR(aH   companion (Jd14:20); to enjoy (Ps37:3)  

Cordially,
David KolinskyMonterey CA
--- On Tue, 3/15/11, K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com> wrote:

From: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] ra`yon and `inyan and what can be learned
To: "David Kolinsky" <yishalom AT sbcglobal.net>
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 8:20 AM

David:

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 9:25 PM, David Kolinsky <yishalom AT sbcglobal.net> 
wrote:

Randall and Karl,



I beg to differ with both of you.  There are a number of different roots from 
which any word spelled (רעיון) Ra(YoN  may have evolved:

I agree with you, that there are more than one “may have” possibilities, but 
the question is, “did have”, and that can have difficulties. One possibility 
even includes that it was an Aramaic loan word, and was’t built from any 
Hebrew root. This is why I reject proposed root/derivative proposals unless 
there is already a recognized connection between them of meaning that can be 
recognized from their contexts.




Those derived from a literal meaning of "to spread out / disperse":

1a - RooW(a (רוע) - found in the hiphil "to sound an alarm" and t'RooW(ah 
(תרועה) shout, alarm

1b - Ra(a( - (רעע) to shout



2a - Ra(aH (רעה) - to put out to pasture / feed, graze, to lead, go out with

       ((2ai YaRa( (ירע)- to move back and forth))  -- NOT A POTENTIAL SOURCE

2b - Ra(a( (רעע) - to VIBRATE (move back and forth), shatter, be broken down, 
be impaired, treat badly, be displeasing



Those derived from a literal meaning of "receive / perceive"

3a - Ra( (רע) - perception, thought

3b - Ra(aH (רעה) - to welcome, befriend, desire, take delight in, enjoy

I also don’t recognize roots that are not found in Tanakh. That does not mean 
that I say that they did not exist, rather that we don’t have record that 
they existed in Biblical Hebrew. Among the proposed roots that you list 
above, I don’t find 1b, 3a, 3b nor the meaning that you list for 2b other 
than the last one you list. How many of those roots are artifacts of the 
Masoretic pointing, and how many actually existed?




In all probability, both uses in Qohelet come from 3b:



"taking delight in the wind" = >>>>  futility

"taking delight of his heart" = >>>> the labor of the heart

I find this a stretch beyond what I personally would do. 




Cordially,



David Kolinsky

Monterey, CA

Karl W. Randolph. 




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From: K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>
To: "Nir cohen - Prof. Mat." <nir AT ccet.ufrn.br>
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Nir:

It sounds like you are using Windows™. I finally had to call in an expert to
get Hebrew working on my Windows™ computer and even after much effort, other
languages are still not reliably working on it.

I downloaded and installed ubuntu linux on another computer, and all the
languages I wanted worked out of the box. Unlike Windows™, that one is free
and easy to install. http://www.ubuntulinux.com Yes, there are Hebrew Bibles
available for it.

Right now I am typing this message on a hackintosh (Dell computer running
Macintosh OS X) and like Ubuntu, all the languages are running out of the
box. I find the Macintosh is the easiest to use and the most useful of the
computers that I have.

I am not a computer expert, just a user.

Since you already have a computer, the Ubuntu Llinux option may be the best.

Karl W. Randolph.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:20 AM, Nir cohen - Prof. Mat. 
<nir AT ccet.ufrn.br>wrote:

>  *thanks karl. i dont have a concordance yet, but used instead a couple of
> internet bible dictionaries, then looked
> up the verses one by one using mekhon mamre. also, for various
> technicalities (the main being my computer
> illiteracy) i still cannot process hebrew fonts on my computer,  in spite
> of several suggestions mentioned by
> colleagues on b-hebrew.
>
> meanwhile, i found akkadian words with root KRM which mean "provide, feed".
> these may be close to
> KEREM and KARMEL also mentioned, i think, by isaac. but maybe less directly
> connected to KRH.
>
> nir cohen
>
> On Tue, 15 Mar 2011 07:42:16 -0700, K Randolph wrote*
>
>