Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] words with the same root letters: XCC-N TMR

b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: "Arnaud Fournet" <fournet.arnaud AT wanadoo.fr>
  • To: <JimStinehart AT aol.com>, <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>, <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] words with the same root letters: XCC-N TMR
  • Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 17:11:17 +0100


----- Original Message ----- From: JimStinehart AT aol.com
To: fournet.arnaud AT wanadoo.fr ; leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il ; b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] words with the same root letters: XCC-N TMR


Dr. Fournet:

We are trying to figure out the meaning and identity of XCC-N TMR at Genesis 14: 7 [heth-tsade-tsade-nun tav-mem-resh].
***
Apparently, that word is XaCaCoN TaMaR (disregarding length).
A.
***


1. Although madi is the native Hurrian word for “wisdom”, we see xa-tsi-tsi, which is a loanword from Akkadian, used for “wisdom” by the Hurrians at p. 22 of your website:
“*[ijadama xadzidzidama] and to Ea and the wisdom (Hasis)”
***
Yes
Note that Ea is also a loanword.
A.
***


2. The Akkadian cuneiform of the Amarna Letters distinguishes tsade/C from shin/$ and sin/% [or s]. XCC in Hebrew is not a perfect match to xa-si-su in Akkadian or to xa-si in Amarna Letter EA 175, because the sibilants there are sin/%/s, not tsade/C. Though the Hurrian sibilants are not always clear, your rendering of xa-tsi-tsi at p. 87 of your website shows that XCC in Hebrew is a perfect match to xa-tsi-tsi in Hurrian.
***
No
Cuneiform <s> is an affricate [ts] and should be rendered by Samekh which was also an affricate [ts] at that time.
Tsade means that this word cannot be Hurrian.
A.
***


3. As to a -ni suffix for this word, the native Hurrian word for “wisdom” is madi, and for “wise” is madonni, with a -ni ending. Thus an abstract noun like madi or xa-tsi-tsi in Hurrian can take -ni [or -nni] as a suffix. Such a suffix would be rendered as -N in Biblical Hebrew.
***
The suffix is -nni with two -n- and has nothing to do with the Article -ni.
A.
***


4. Tam-ri means “nine” in Hurrian. The “wisdom” of the Hurrians as to primeval matters centered around the number nine, as the only three numbers I know of in Hurrian primeval mythology are (i) nine, (ii) nine, and (iii) nine thousand. In particular, the Hurrians thought that each of the first two primeval gods had reigned for nine years.
***
?
I have no idea where you get that idea from.
A.
***


5. Accordingly, XCC-N TMR at Genesis 14: 7 makes perfect sense when analyzed from a Hurrian perspective. XCC is xa-tsi-tsi, being an Akkadian loanword that the Hurrians on occasion used for “wisdom”. -N is the ubiquitous Hurrian suffix that can apply to “wisdom” in Hurrian, whether madi or xa-tsi-tsi. TMR is the Hurrian word for “nine”. Given that Hurrian primeval mythology centers on the number nine, the following makes sense in Hurrian as a city name, though it likely would make little sense to any other peoples: “Wisdom-the Nine”. That phrase would be rendered in Biblical Hebrew as XCC-N TMR, just as we see at Genesis 14: 7.
***
Neither the consonants nor the vowels match.
And I would add, they don't match as usual
but it does not seem to deter you.
A.
***


6. There are two alternative explanations of xasi at Amarna Letter EA 175. I have previously suggested that xasi is a shortened form of xasisu in Akkadian, and as such is a shortened form of xa-tsi-tsi in Hurrian. Another possibility is that xasi is the Hurrian word for “to hear”, which is usually spelled xaz- or xa$- in Hurrian. The sibilants are not an exact match, though they’re close, and the meaning is different, but it’s somewhat related. Both of these approaches can be matched to Hurrian names at Nuzi, which include XaCi-Ya [or XaZi-Ya], XaCianNi [or XaZianNi], Xasi-ya and Xa$i-ya, Xasi-u and Xa$i-u, and Xa$i. Each of Xasi-u and Xasi-ya look a lot like Xa-si at Amarna Letter EA 175, with the only difference being that the Nuzi names add a standard Hurrian suffix. Since the Hurrian word for “to hear” is spelled xaz- or xa$-, but not xas-, one has to ask if Xasi-ya and Xasi-u at Nuzi, and the city name Xasi, may be plays on a shortened form of xasisi, the Hurrian/Akkadian word for “wisdom”. At a minimum, all of the following are possible in Hurrian, either as names at Nuzi or as common words: XaCiCi, XaCiCi-Ni, Xasisi, XaCi and Xasi. The first three clearly mean “wisdom”. The last two are ambiguous: they may mean “to hear”, or they may be a shortened form of “wisdom”. One has to wonder if Xasi-ya was ambiguous to the Hurrians themselves [where the -ya suffix is a standard Hurrian theophoric]. It could either mean “Hear God”, if Xasi is an unattested form of the verb “to hear”, which is normally spelled xaz- or xa$- [but not xas-], or it could mean “Wisdom of God”, if Xasi is a shortened form of xasisi, meaning “wisdom”. Perhaps it meant both? Could Xasi-ya mean both, whereas Xa$i-ya, by contrast, would solely mean “Hear God”? We must remember that the Hurrians very often shortened words, such as substituting Te- for Te$up, in proper names. Even if every one of these Nuzi names is based on the Hurrian verb “to hear”, rather than on the Hurrian/Akkadian noun “wisdom”, one can still imagine XaCiCi-Ni/“the Wisdom” being shortened in Hurrian to Xasi/“hear” [though the meanings would be different]. The Hurrian name Xasi at Nuzi might, however, be a shortened form of the Hurrian/Akkadian word for “wisdom”, xasisi. Either way, (i) a Hurrian city name XaCiCi-Ni could get shortened to Xasi [with it being unclear if the meaning changes], and (ii) the fact that XaCiCi is a loanword from Akkadian and can alternatively be spelled Xasisi in Hurrian makes it easier to see Xasi as being a shortened form of XaCiCi-Ni [regardless of whether the meaning changes].
***
You're extremely creative, but I'm afraid it will never convince anybody.
A.
***


7. Your repeated insistence that xa-tsi-tsi in Hurrian is a loanword from xa-si-su in Akkadian greatly strengthens my case. That creates a natural link between XCC-N at Genesis 14: 7 and Xa-si at Amarna Letter EA 175. Finding Xasi + suffix as a Hurrian name at Nuzi also helps. I see XCC-N TMR/xa-tsi-tsi-ni tam-ri at Genesis 14: 7 as being one and the same place as Xa-si at Amarna Letter EA 175. The former is the long-form Hurrian rendering, and the latter is a shortened version in Akkadian and/or Hurrian, Just as an American can shorten “San Francisco” to “Frisco”, so could a Hurrian shorten Xa-tsi-tsi-ni Tam-ri to Xa-si.
***
That's anachronical.

Arnaud Fournet
***





Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page