Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Arnaud Fournet" <fournet.arnaud AT wanadoo.fr>]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: JimStinehart AT aol.com
To: fournet.arnaud AT wanadoo.fr ; leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il ; 
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] words with the same root letters: XCC-N TMR


Dr. Fournet:

We are trying to figure out the meaning and identity of XCC-N TMR at Genesis 
14: 7 [heth-tsade-tsade-nun tav-mem-resh].
***
Apparently, that word is XaCaCoN TaMaR (disregarding length).
A.
***


1.  Although madi is the native Hurrian word for “wisdom”, we see 
xa-tsi-tsi, which is a loanword from Akkadian, used for “wisdom” by the 
Hurrians at p. 22 of your website:
“*[ijadama xadzidzidama] and to Ea and the wisdom (Hasis)”
***
Yes
Note that Ea is also a loanword.
A.
***


2.  The Akkadian cuneiform of the Amarna Letters distinguishes tsade/C from 
shin/$ and sin/% [or s].  XCC in Hebrew is not a perfect match to xa-si-su 
in Akkadian or to xa-si in Amarna Letter EA 175, because the sibilants there 
are sin/%/s, not tsade/C.  Though the Hurrian sibilants are not always 
clear, your rendering of xa-tsi-tsi at p. 87 of your website shows that XCC 
in Hebrew is a perfect match to xa-tsi-tsi in Hurrian.
***
No
Cuneiform <s> is an affricate [ts] and should be rendered by Samekh which 
was also an affricate [ts] at that time.
Tsade means that this word cannot be Hurrian.
A.
***


3.  As to a -ni suffix for this word, the native Hurrian word for “wisdom” 
is madi, and for “wise” is madonni, with a -ni ending.  Thus an abstract 
noun like madi or xa-tsi-tsi in Hurrian can take -ni [or -nni] as a suffix. 
Such a suffix would be rendered as -N in Biblical Hebrew.
***
The suffix is -nni with two -n- and has nothing to do with the Article -ni.
A.
***


4.  Tam-ri means “nine” in Hurrian.   The “wisdom” of the Hurrians as to 
primeval matters centered around the number nine, as the only three numbers 
I know of in Hurrian primeval mythology are (i) nine, (ii) nine, and (iii) 
nine thousand.  In particular, the Hurrians thought that each of the first 
two primeval gods had reigned for nine years.
***
?
I have no idea where you get that idea from.
A.
***


5.  Accordingly, XCC-N TMR at Genesis 14: 7 makes perfect sense when 
analyzed from a Hurrian perspective.  XCC is xa-tsi-tsi, being an Akkadian 
loanword that the Hurrians on occasion used for “wisdom”.  -N is the 
ubiquitous Hurrian suffix that can apply to “wisdom” in Hurrian, whether 
madi or xa-tsi-tsi.  TMR is the Hurrian word for “nine”.  Given that Hurrian 
primeval mythology centers on the number nine, the following makes sense in 
Hurrian as a city name, though it likely would make little sense to any 
other peoples:  “Wisdom-the Nine”.  That phrase would be rendered in 
Biblical Hebrew as XCC-N TMR, just as we see at Genesis 14: 7.
***
Neither the consonants nor the vowels match.
And I would add, they don't match as usual
but it does not seem to deter you.
A.
***


6.  There are two alternative explanations of xasi at Amarna Letter EA 175. 
I have previously suggested that xasi is a shortened form of xasisu in 
Akkadian, and as such is a shortened form of xa-tsi-tsi in Hurrian.  Another 
possibility is that xasi is the Hurrian word for “to hear”, which is usually 
spelled xaz- or xa$- in Hurrian.  The sibilants are not an exact match, 
though they’re close, and the meaning is different, but it’s somewhat 
related.  Both of these approaches can be matched to Hurrian names at Nuzi, 
which include XaCi-Ya [or XaZi-Ya], XaCianNi [or XaZianNi], Xasi-ya and 
Xa$i-ya, Xasi-u and Xa$i-u, and Xa$i.  Each of Xasi-u and Xasi-ya look a lot 
like Xa-si at Amarna Letter EA 175, with the only difference being that the 
Nuzi names add a standard Hurrian suffix.  Since the Hurrian word for “to 
hear” is spelled xaz- or xa$-, but not xas-, one has to ask if Xasi-ya and 
Xasi-u at Nuzi, and the city name Xasi, may be plays on a shortened form of 
xasisi, the Hurrian/Akkadian word for “wisdom”.  At a minimum, all of the 
following are possible in Hurrian, either as names at Nuzi or as common 
words:  XaCiCi, XaCiCi-Ni, Xasisi, XaCi and Xasi.  The first three clearly 
mean “wisdom”.  The last two are ambiguous:  they may mean “to hear”, or 
they may be a shortened form of “wisdom”. One has to wonder if Xasi-ya was 
ambiguous to the Hurrians themselves [where the -ya suffix is a standard 
Hurrian theophoric].  It could either mean “Hear God”, if Xasi is an 
unattested form of the verb “to hear”, which is normally spelled xaz- or 
xa$- [but not xas-], or it could mean “Wisdom of God”, if Xasi is a 
shortened form of xasisi, meaning “wisdom”.  Perhaps it meant both?  Could 
Xasi-ya mean both, whereas Xa$i-ya, by contrast, would solely mean “Hear 
God”?  We must remember that the Hurrians very often shortened words, such 
as substituting Te- for Te$up, in proper names.  Even if every one of these 
Nuzi names is based on the Hurrian verb “to hear”, rather than on the 
Hurrian/Akkadian noun “wisdom”, one can still imagine XaCiCi-Ni/“the Wisdom” 
being shortened in Hurrian to Xasi/“hear” [though the meanings would be 
different].  The Hurrian name Xasi at Nuzi might, however, be a shortened 
form of the Hurrian/Akkadian word for “wisdom”, xasisi.  Either way, (i) a 
Hurrian city name XaCiCi-Ni could get shortened to Xasi [with it being 
unclear if the meaning changes], and (ii) the fact that XaCiCi is a loanword 
from Akkadian and can alternatively be spelled Xasisi in Hurrian makes it 
easier to see Xasi as being a shortened form of XaCiCi-Ni [regardless of 
whether the meaning changes].
***
You're extremely creative, but I'm afraid it will never convince anybody.
A.
***


7.  Your repeated insistence that xa-tsi-tsi in Hurrian is a loanword from 
xa-si-su in Akkadian greatly strengthens my case.  That creates a natural 
link between XCC-N at Genesis 14: 7 and Xa-si at Amarna Letter EA 175. 
Finding Xasi + suffix as a Hurrian name at Nuzi also helps.  I see XCC-N 
TMR/xa-tsi-tsi-ni tam-ri at Genesis 14: 7 as being one and the same place as 
Xa-si at Amarna Letter EA 175.  The former is the long-form Hurrian 
rendering, and the latter is a shortened version in Akkadian and/or Hurrian, 
Just as an American can shorten “San Francisco” to “Frisco”, so could a 
Hurrian shorten Xa-tsi-tsi-ni Tam-ri to Xa-si.
***
That's anachronical.

Arnaud Fournet
***