Biblical Hebrew Forum

[David Kolinsky <yishalom AT sbcglobal.net>]

Nir:
Thanks for taking the time to express your doubts.  I am sure my response 
will only raise more but at least we are engaging in dialogue.
shum = garlic from (SYM = put, place) meaning readily accessible        
similar to ShaM = there (placed - readily accessible)ShaeM - name (SYM = put 
place) meaning what is placed = a label
shmama = desert literally meaning unmoving > desolate from SYM
shemex = fish, in Arabic SMK (from placed one on top of another >) to make 
thick, thicken; roof, ceiling, (shingled > scaled >) fish) 
shama' = to hear actually "stay put and listen" (from SM = stay put)
shemesh = sun from SYM = stay put, placesimilar to SMS Arabic - (unmoving >) 
headstrong, balky, restivethe sun staying put on a much more obvious and 
predictable pathas opposed to YRX = moon which means traveler related to /RX


samax = to be happy from MXH = spread outrelated: SMX - Arabic  = 
magnanimous, authorize, show good will          MXH - Ugaritic = with 
exuberance           MXH - Akkadian - to  rave, become frenzied 

shemen = oil from MN = (be / exude) from
sm?ol = left literally means "weak side" from MHL = attenuate
shemetz = trace from MWTs = (to wring out) > (last drop) = taint, particle, 
contaminant, glimpse, tiniest piece of it (Jb4:12;26;14) 
shimtzah = calumny = blemish, disgrace (Ex32:25) from taint
shmad = extinction from  MDD literally means "to draw away from" to extricate 
> to destroy related to Syriac (disengage) mislead, allow to be inattentive / 
idle, excommunicate, weakened, divided, repudiated) similar to \MD column (to 
draw up from)
shamat=dropped, ??? I am unfamilar please give referance
 Thanks for taking the time,David Kolinsky

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 21:04:39 -0300
From: "Nir cohen - Prof. Mat." <nir AT ccet.ufrn.br>
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: [b-hebrew] shamir, shait and one more thorny business
Message-ID: <20110110235905.M29232 AT ccet.ufrn.br>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8

david,

SHAMIR: it makes sense to suggest shamir for brier or similar thorny-head 
plants in the region, some possibly extinct by now. but there are two 
problems: 

1) the s-->sh transformation. as it happens, SMR for thorny 
is used in modern hebrew in several ways (samar se'ar rosho, 
masmer, samur) and none of them with sh. (see below for s<-->sh).

2) another possible candidate for brier would be dorban used in the expression
"kotzim vedorbanot." also the name for porcupine and for any
instrument of the same quality used on animals. see the (talmudic?) expression
"dvarim ke-dorvanot". 

can anybody verify if SMR or DORBAN are BH?
--------------

SHAIT: maybe related with ShTT, i.e. a plant which causes one's
skin to bleed. it might even be the case that "shamir va-shait" is an 
inseparable idiomatic pair (similar to "shod va-shever") simply 
characterizing a whole family of plants which are BOTH thorny  
(shape) and brewsing (function). see also "kotzim ve-dorbanot" or 
"shotim ve-akrabim", also used as complete pairs.

----------------------

do i understand that you see a common linguistic source for 

             shem(name) and sam(put)?                      
             shamar(guarded) and samar(got thorny)?

i can only say i believe your use of the s<-->sh transformation 
within hebrew is far too liberal. i see no possible etymological
connection here, either.

-------------------------------- 

i always get uneasy when you (and isaac) non-challantly 
reduce three-letter roots to the first two letters, AND 
ATTRIBUTE A COMMON ETYMOLOGICAL VALUE TO THESE TWO LETTERS, from 
which all these roots supposedly emanate. sounds cool! except that 
(correct me if i'm wrong) you do it selectively, i.e. only for a 
subset of roots which fits the a posteriori chosen etymology. 
the remaining roots remain, so too speak, orphans. 

thus, shama'=heard and samax=was happy also start with SM/ShM, and so do
shemen=oil, shum=garlic, shmama=desert, smol=left, shemex=fish,
shamat=dropped, shemetz=trace, shimtzah=calumny, shmad=extinction, 
shemesh=sun. 

a) are all these words reducible to "SM=put=name"? 

b) if not, what are they reducible to, under your system?
>From if AT math.bu.edu  Tue Jan 11 22:16:50 2011
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Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org, "Nir cohen - Prof. Mat." <nir AT ccet.ufrn.br>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] non-challantly reducing three-letter roots to
        earlier two letter roots
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It appears to me that YRX is a variant of ZRX, as well as SRX and CRX.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Jan 11, 2011, at 9:41 PM, David Kolinsky wrote:

> YRX = moon which means traveler related to /RX