Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Daniel Nordlund" <djnordlund AT verizon.net>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-hebrew-
> bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Arnaud Fournet
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 7:20 AM
> To: Barry; b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Nooo! Don't go!
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry" <nebarry AT verizon.net>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Nooo! Don't go!
> 
> 
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Arnaud Fournet" <fournet.arnaud AT wanadoo.fr>
> > To: "Barry" <nebarry AT verizon.net>; <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 4:23 AM
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Nooo! Don't go!
> >
> >
> >> This strikes me as being a complete fallacy.
> >
> > Good morning, as it is here, Arnaud.  Thanks for your response.  You
> have
> > precisely the reaction that many students give when faced with the
> > assertion, which allows me to start quite a discussion on the subject.
> ***
> Hmhm.
> Anyway I'm not one of "many students".
> This is a forum among listees here, as far as I understand it.
> You're not "teaching" me anything, we are discussing on a par.
> Hope this helps.
> A.
> ***
> 
> 
> >
> >> Evolution is about scientific knowledge. There are explicit criteria to
> >> know if something is scientific or not.
> >> And Evolution doubtless has nothing to do with "mythology" unless one
> has
> >> a very idiosyncratic and hyper-extensive approach of that word, which
> >> would nearly amounts to equating any kind of knowledge with mythology.
> >
> > Not at all.  A standard definition: " mythology, myths collectively; the
> > body of stories associated with a culture or institution or person..."
> >
> > The Wikipedia article correctly points out:
> >
> > The term mythology can refer to either the study of myths or a body of
> > myths.[1] For example, comparative mythology is the study of connections
> > between myths from different cultures,[2] whereas Greek mythology is the
> > body of myths from ancient Greece. The term "myth" is often used
> > colloquially to refer to a false story;[3][4] however, the academic use
> of
> > the term generally does not pass judgment on its truth or falsity.[4][5]
> > In the study of folklore, a myth is a symbolic narrative explaining how
> > the world and humankind came to be in their present form.[5][6][7] Many
> > scholars in other fields use the term "myth" in somewhat different
> > ways.[7][8][9] In a very broad sense, the word can refer to any
> > traditional story.[10]
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology
> >
> > I would add to this the purpose that mythology serves in the culture --
> it
> > often has explanatory and didactic force.  George Washington chopped
> down
> > a cherry tree, a story now universally acknowledged to be a fiction, but
> > it was long believed, and even now, historians will say that it appears
> to
> > have captured nicely Washington's character.
> ***
> Wikipedia is just a huge heap of amateurish crap trying to masquerade as
> knowledge.
> I'm afraid you missed an opportunity to convince me you are professional
> and
> competent.
> I would rather consider a reference to a relevant book written by some
> competent individual.
> So far, erh, well, to put it short, well: none... nothing...
> A.
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >> In all cases I tend to think that the word "mythology" is somewhat
> flawed
> >> from the start.
> >> This word is tainted by the Greek mythology and the major problem is
> that
> >> the Ancient Greeks no longer "believed in" their own "mythology" in the
> >> first place. They dealt with it as entertainment and moralistic fairy
> >> tales.
> >> Normally we would expect people to believe in their own "myths" and
> take
> >> them in earnest, not to laugh at them. It should be a cultural given
> with
> >> an emotional and personal involvement.
> >
> > This is a vast oversimplification, actually.  It is true that by the
> > classical period, the philosophers and literrati are viewing myths in a
> > way closer to what we call metaphor, but that doesn't meant they don't
> > believe them.  Plato's philosophy is, in my opinion, impossible to
> > understand unless you see the mythological underpinnings. Cicero, in De
> > Deorum Natura, writes:
> >
> > Velut in hac quaestione plerique, quod maxime veri simile est et quo
> omnes
> > duce natura venimus, deos esse dixerunt...
> >
> > [Everyone should learn Latin.  No funny little letters]
> >
> > "In the question now before us, the greater part of mankind have united
> to
> > acknowledge that which is most probable, and which we are all by nature
> > led to suppose, namely, that there are Gods."
> >
> > Now, as to precisely what Cicero meant by this and how he incorporates
> > "mythology," one must read the rest of the treatise.
> >
> > You might also want to consider the ways in which classical mythology
> > interacts with the mystery religions as they begin to pervade the
> > Greco-Roman world, and the popularity of these religions, including
> > Christianity, with their many mythic elements (some incorporated from
> > "traditional" Greco-Roman religion, which is itself not necessarily the
> > same as the literary forms of the myths).  Particularly of interest is
> the
> > way in which non-Christian influenced gnosticism incorporates and
> > expresses mythological elements.
> >
> >> I don't know if there is another word that would not convey the
> implicit
> >> idea that it's just fake and absurd stuff that hangs in the distance.
> >
> > By the standard definition(s) above, shared by most scholars of the
> > subject,
> > evolution does fit the bill.  It is an integral part of the culture with
> > tremendous explanatory force.  It works its way into popular writing,
> both
> > fiction and fact.  It has largely the same function as myths have in any
> > culture.
> >
> > Feel free to disagree.  While this has some impact on biblical studies,
> of
> > which Hebrew is a part, we should really get back to a discussion of the
> > language, so this will be my last post on the subject.
> ****
> lol
> Anyway the forum is about "the discussion of Biblical Hebrew language and
> literature."
> I don't buy your "hit-and-run" rhetorics about throwing some huge
> provocative pseudo-truth and then expect that huge crap to be left
> unanswered.
> Dirty tricks for retarded rabbits of the day, aren't they?
> Hope this helps again.
> 
> 
> By the way, do you have anything relevant to say about "Biblical Hebrew
> language and literature"?
> 
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> Arnaud Fournet
> 
> 
> 

So this is what now qualifies as civil, professional discourse on this list?  
And, in a hijacked thread at that (ironically a thread that began with an 
attempt to convince a member, who felt he was attacked, to stay)?

Dan

Daniel Nordlund
Bothell, WA USA