Biblical Hebrew Forum

[James Christian <jc.bhebrew AT googlemail.com>]

I didn't read your whole email because you started out with showing a
complete misunderstanding of the general points raised.

Of course in most cases the vowel points of the MT will indicate a correct
reading (ignoring issues about pronunciation but focussing on disambiguation
of ambiguous consonant sequences).

The basic point is that you learn what you practise. If you practise riding
a bike with stabilisers you learn how to ride a bike with stabilisers. If
you practise swimming with arm floats you learn how to swim with arm floats.
Obviously, the vast majority of learners feel more comfortable with these
kind of stepping stones to the final goal of being able to ride a bike
without stabilisers or being able to swim with floats wrapped around your
arms. However, using the MT vowel points as a stepping stone has both
advantages and disadvantages.

The major disadvantage is that most are never likely to leave the stepping
stone to the final goal of reading the text unpointed and in fact never do.
The second disadvantage is that of those who do leave the stepping stone
they are less likely to make intuitive disambiguations because of having
read the text so many times pointed that they expect a certain
interpretation and don't engage logical disambiguation when reading the text
(this is not true of everyone, of course, I'm being very over general).

The clear advantage to learning to read Hebrew unpointed from the very
beginning is that readers can learn the ambiguity of forms from the very
beginning and learn to depend on the context from the very beginning. This
is not to say that their understanding of the text will automatically be
superior as a result but you are more likely to engage natural processes of
logical disambiguation in this way.

So please understand the general points raised before misrepresenting those
that raise them and label them negatively and inaccurately as 'point
rejectors'.

I am not aware of any so called 'point rejectors'. The points are a very
important phenomenon which give us an accurate understanding of how one
group of scribes understood the text at a particular time in the history of
the transmission of the text. Such lines of evidence are, unquestionably, a
vital element of a critical analysis of the various traditions of the text.

However, if you practise that one tradition you learn that one tradition and
close your critical toolset to be based on that one tradition. Not entirely,
the best 'scholarly approach' in the view of myself and others. You are, of
course, perfectly free to disagree just as you are perfectly free to be
blatantly and quite clearly wrong.

In summary, I hope you have understood that encouraging reading Hebrew
unpointed is not so much an attack against the Massoretic tradition so much
as intended to give students of Hebrew a better critical apparatus to build
their understanding on.

James Christian

On 9 May 2010 12:45, Garth Grenache <garthgrenache AT hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Dear all,
>
> A couple of writers on this group make frequent denials about the validity
> of the Masoretic vowels.  In the midst of a sensible discussion they
> interject that what is being said cannot be known because the vowel points
> are not reliable and should be removed from the text.  Is this a sensible
> conclusion?
>
> Though they come from a reading tradition, and though there may be various
> interpretations of that tradition, the Masoretic points are one (imperfect)
> preservation of that tradition.  The Samaritan reading tradition is another.
>  Hebrew names and writings in Greek are another.  Babylonian pointing is
> another.
>
> My suggestion is that the Masoretic vowel points -to anyone who doesn't
> live in Biblical times of the 1st Millennium AD -that's you and me and
> everyone here- are a better starting point than an unvocalised text.  If we
> keep in mind that the vowel points were added, and we are open to *sensible
> emendations brought forth with evidence from other known reading traditions*
> then I suggest we will go well.
>
> In plainer words to the point-rejectors> If you don't have a better
> evidenced suggestion about what the pronunciation or meaning of the
> discussed passage, then your rejection of the Masoretic points adds nothing
> of value to the discussion.
>
> To the others who have to deal with point-rejectors>  Challenge them:  "How
> are you reading it and what evidence do you have from the other traditions
> to support your reading?  Or are you just being argumentative without
> evidence?"
>
> I greatly affirm Yitzhak Sapir's words:
> "There is nothing scholarly or critical about ignoring the vowels. Nor is
> it an issue that the Masoretes couldn't all unanimously agree what that
> tradition was.  The issue is complex. There are several traditions, all
> relevant and authentic.  A proper scholarly approach is actually to make use
> of the wealth of information and slowly reconstruct the tradition back based
> on the existing representatives.  Furthermore, the best way to analyze the
> text critically is to clearly understand the vowels.  Only with expertise in
> the vocalization (or, better yet, different vocalization systems in addition
> to the well-documented Tiberian system) can you consider alternatives."
>
> Being sceptical isn't scholarly.  Making faithful use of all available
> data: that is scholarly.
>
> Also, if you are claiming descent from one of the lost tribes: so what?
>  The lost tribes have not preserved the faith of Israel or the texts or
> reading traditions of their Scriptures: they are lost and 'not My people'.
>  Those who return to Him and become His people have no Hebrew Bible except
> that which is preserved by Jews(MT, LXX, etc.) and Samaritans(Sam.Pent.).
>  Just because I am of Israelite blood doesn't mean I can put the right
> vowels on the Hebrew Bible!  If I've got a suggestion that the Masoretic
> points are wrong for a particular passage, let me bring EVIDENCE, or be
> utterly ignored in any scholarly discussion!
>
> Garth Grenache,
> Australia.
>
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