Biblical Hebrew Forum

[K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>]

Yitzhak:

On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Yitzhak Sapir <yitzhaksapir AT gmail.com>wrote:

> Karl,
>
> I gave you the URLs.  I thought you copied them.


When? Where? No, I didn’t copy them.


>  They are not hard to find.
> If you really want to learn, you will find them.
>

My sons claim I’m hopeless with search engines. Maybe that’s why I think you
are a real wizard in finding documents. I often spend hours looking for some
information and not finding it, then you find it and say it was easy. That’s
a skill I don’t have.

>
> The only time I remember you going to a library is one case which dealt
> with
> Capernaum.  You went only after I looked up your town, looked up the
> article,
> and found you had access to it in your "town" which is in fact not a
> very little
> town and even has a university.


Big town, eh? I tell visitors that this is the snootiest hick town I have
ever lived in. If you want to find a hotel, convention center, restaurant,
or tourist trap, they’re all here. But if you want to find anything else,
good luck. With the exception of groceries, I have to go out of town for
most everything else.


>  Even though I had no access, you did not
> offer to send me the article, or even summarize the arguments of the author
> but rather went on to say that you felt the author's views were not
> convincing.
>

Correction, I did not know you did not have access to that article.
Secondly, it is microfiche, and as far as I know there was no way that I
could make a photocopy and send it to you via snail mail. Third, twice I
summarized what the author said about the discussion we had, namely, because
the finding contradicted his theory, he had no explanation for it (this is
now my third time summarizing it).

>
> Regarding Prov 1:19, I wasn't on list when you described it a while back --
> actually in July 2004:
>
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew/2004-July/019680.html
>
> Your arguments there are not very convincing, and again, at best you show
> that the Masoretic reading is ambiguous, and are inconsistent with your
> preconceived notion of what the Biblical grammar should be like, rather
> than
> learning the grammar from the text.
>

You don’t have to be convinced, that’s up to you.

As for me, this was simply learning the lessons of grammar and poetic style
from reading the text, then applying those lessons to another text, in this
case, applying it to Proverbs 1:19.

>
> In Isaiah 30:14, you offered a possible interpretation:
>
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew/2007-October/034176.html
>
> Again, it is not proof that the Masoretic points are wrong.  You are simply
> suggesting an alternate reading:
>
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew/2007-October/034215.html
>
> I have no idea how you read "ywcrym ktwt" as "used in the making of
> forged objects."  Even unpointed and even allowing for the ambiguity
> without vocalization, this is not Hebrew.
>

What was it what you said above? Can we say that you “…are inconsistent with
your
preconceived notion of what the Biblical grammar should be like, rather than
learning the grammar from the text.”? How do you know that “this is not
Hebrew”? How does one express the ideas in English which I see in Hebrew?

One practice I use is to take definitions from uses where there is no
question as to the definition, then apply it to places where there is
difficulty in reading the sentence. Using this practice rules out the
standard translation, but opens the door to my understanding.


> Yitzhak Sapir
>
> Karl W. Randolph.