Biblical Hebrew Forum

[jimstinehart AT aol.com]

Karl:
 
You wrote:  “Correction, the text does not say that they went to 
Kadesh-barnea, rather to a place called Kadesh, which is listed elsewhere as 
having 
been to the south
 and east of Moab. The kings had travelled further south and west from there
 in their invasion, then returned to that point.”
 
1.  I wonder if I may take that comment of yours as implying that you agree 
with me that if QD$ at Genesis 14: 7 meant Kadesh-barnea on the border of 
the Negev and the Sinai Desert, then the use of $WB at the beginning of 
Genesis 14: 7 would make no sense?
 
2.  I have never heard the argument you advance as to the QD$ at Genesis 
14: 7 being located southeast of Moab.  Let me list here what I take to be 
the 
seemingly unanimous scholarly view that (as opposed to my own view) the QD$ 
at Genesis 14: 7 is Kadesh-barnea in southwest Canaan, being a desert oasis 
on the approximate border of the Negev and the Sinai Desert, about 60 miles 
south of Gaza:
 
(a)  “Zondervan KJV Study Bible” (1985):  “14: 7…Kadesh.  Located in the 
southwest Negev…, it was later called Kadesh-barnea….”
 
(b)  E.A. Speiser, “Genesis” (1962), at p. 102:  “En-mishpat…another name 
for Kadesh, equated with modern ‘Ayn Qadeis, some fifty miles south of 
Beer-sheba.”  [Indeed, Prof. Speiser goes on to try to “explain” how 
attackers 
from the east, who had started campaigning at Ashteroth in the northeast, 
could somehow, some way be thought to “return” and come to Kadesh-barnea at 
the Sinai Desert:  “The invaders appear to have made a wide turn to the right 
before starting on their way home.”  So the scholarly community appears to 
see $WB at Genesis 14: 7 as meaning “[to make] a wide turn to the right”.  
My argument is precisely that $WB  n-e-v-e-r  has a meaning anything like 
that.]
 
(c)  Bruce K. Waltke, “Genesis:  A Commentary” (2001), at p. 231:  “En 
Mishpat (that is, Kadesh).  Kadesh is also known as Kadesh Barnea, a group of 
springs 46 miles (75 km) south of Bersheba.”
 
Karl, I honestly have never seen any scholar view the QD$ at Genesis 14: 7 
as being anything other than Kadesh-barnea, located in southwest Canaan.  
True, the text does not say Kadesh-barnea.  And true, a meaning of 
Kadesh-barnea renders Genesis 14: 7 nonsensical (in my opinion).  But I have 
never seen 
any university scholar question that identification, much less propose any 
other identification.  To the scholarly community, the QD$ at Genesis 14: 7 
is Kadesh-barnea in southwest Canaan.  Period.
 
3.  Karl, do you agree with me that if the QD$ at Genesis 14: 7 means 
Kadesh-barnea in southwest Canaan, then it would not be possible for these 
attackers from the east, who had started campaigning at Ashteroth in the 
northeast, to “return”/$WB to Kadesh-barnea?  That’s precisely the Hebrew 
language 
point that I am making on this thread.
 
I do not think that the conventional and scholarly view of Genesis 14: 7, 
which views QD$ as being located in southwest Canaan, is possible, given any 
normal range of meaning of $WB as the first word in the sentence.  $WB does 
not mean “to make a wide turn to the right”!  No way.  $WB means to “return”
.
 
If $WB at the beginning of Genesis 14: 7 means “return” (which is its 
meaning in 393 other places in the Hebrew Bible), and if QD$ at Genesis 14: 7 
means QD$, that is, Qadesh of Upper Galilee, then not only does the sentence 
flow smoothly, but we can even verify that this precise military operation 
did indeed occur at least once in the secular history of the ancient world, 
per Amarna Letters EA 197 and EA 175.  Those two Amarna Letters tell the  
s-a-m-e  story as Genesis 14: 5-7.
 
If I am understanding the Hebrew words $WB and GM correctly, the 
conventional and scholarly view of Genesis 14: 7 [where QD$ = Kadesh-barnea] 
is simply 
impossible, based on linguistic and geographical considerations alone.
 
Jim Stinehart
Evanston, Illinois