Biblical Hebrew Forum

[James Read <J.Read-2 AT sms.ed.ac.uk>]

Apologies. In that case, check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet

as you will see there is a Greek letter tau which very much resembles  
an English T.

James Christian

Quoting Yodan <yodan AT yodanco.com>:

> Thanks for your explanation.
>
>
>
> The answer to your question (in the intro to your answer) is obvious:
>
>
>
> I don't read Greek. Were I able to read Greek, I would not need to ask
> whether Greek has a T.
>
>
>
>
>
> *********************************
>
> Rivka Sherman-Gold
>
>
>
> **********************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Read [mailto:J.Read-2 AT sms.ed.ac.uk]
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 7:48 AM
> To: yodan AT yodanco.com
> Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] FW: Ester / Esther
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Quoting Yodan <yodan AT yodanco.com>:
>
>
>
> > Thank you. I am curious to know whey Ester, which clearly has a T (as
> there
>
> > is a dagesh in TAV) became Esther. I'm assuming that there is a T (in
>
> > addition to TH) in Greek. Is this correct?
>
>
>
>
>
> Did you look at the greek text in the link I sent you? The answer is
>
> clearly 'No!'. There is only a theta in the place of the Hebrew Tav. I
>
> think there are a number of things we need to consider here:
>
>
>
> a) The pointing is late. This is no indication of how it was
>
> originally pronounced.
>
> b) We do not know with certainty how the Greek theta was pronounced by
>
> the translator who chose to use the theta (let alone the general
>
> pronunciation of that era) - it could have been a th sound or merely
>
> an aspirated t or who knows
>
> c) We do not even know with certainty the pronunciation of English
>
> 'th' at the time it was chosen in English translations.
>
> d) All we really know with any kind of certainty is that the
>
> pronunciation of English th has many variations even today in the many
>
> different accents and dialects of English
>
>
>
>
>
> James Christian
>
>
>
> >
>
> > *********************************
>
> > Rivka Sherman-Gold
>
> > YODAN Publishing
>
> >
>
> > **********************************
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: James Read [mailto:J.Read-2 AT sms.ed.ac.uk]
>
> > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:11 AM
>
> > To: yodan AT yodanco.com
>
> > Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
>
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] FW: Ester / Esther
>
> >
>
> > In Greek E???? . See Esther 2:10 at
>
> > http://www.septuagint.org/LXX/Esther/2 for an example. For those whose
>
> > email clients cannot view Greek characters there is clearly a theta
>
> > (th) in the position in question.
>
> >
>
> > For Latin see http://www.latinvulgate.com/verse.aspx?t=0&b=19&c=2
>
> > chapter 2 and verse 8 for Hester.
>
> >
>
> > In order to understand the transmission of names you have to
>
> > understand that names were first transliterated into Greek (a language
>
> > with different phonetic limitations to Hebrew) and then into Latin
>
> > (another language with different phonetic limitations) and that most
>
> > of our transliterations have come through this double filter and then
>
> > been influenced by our own languages phonetic limitations.
>
> >
>
> > An interesting case study are the names Jacob and Joshua in English
>
> > translations. Somehow, they have managed to become Jacob and James for
>
> > Iakov and Joshua and Jesus for Yehoshua. While it is relatively a
>
> > simple exercise to see how Iakov underwent various transformations to
>
> > become Jacob and how Yehoshua became Joshua it is presently beyond me
>
> > just how exactly  English  versions got this strange fork when the
>
> > Latin versions are devoid of it.
>
> >
>
> > e.g. http://www.latinvulgate.com/verse.aspx?t=1&b=20 shows that James
>
> > is clearly Iakobus in Latin.
>
> >
>
> > James Christian
>
> >
>
> > James Christian
>
> >
>
> > Quoting Yodan <yodan AT yodanco.com>:
>
> >
>
> > > Does anyone have an explanation to why the transliteration of Ester is
>
> > > Esther, considering the fact that TAV has a Dagesh and, therefore, has
>
> > been
>
> > > pronounced T and not TH all along. I wonder if anyone knows how this name
>
> > > was transliterated into Greek or Latin - whether this name's third
>
> > consonant
>
> > > is transliterated as T or TH.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Thanks,
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > *********************************
>
> > >
>
> > > Rivka Sherman-Gold
>
> > >
>
> > > YODAN Publishing
>
> > >
>
> > > P.O. Box 60655
>
> > >
>
> > > Palo Alto, CA 94306-0655
>
> > >
>
> > > 650-494-6994
>
> > >
>
> > >  <mailto:Rivka AT YodanPublishing.com> Rivka AT YodanPublishing.com
>
> > >
>
> > > **********************************
>
> > >
>
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The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.