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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 41: 1: "Two Years of Days"

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  • From: James Read <J.Read-2 AT sms.ed.ac.uk>
  • To: JimStinehart AT aol.com
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 41: 1: "Two Years of Days"
  • Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:33:28 +0100

Oh dear! You still haven't answered the questions. I'll explain to you why again but this time I'll be a little more explicit.

Quoting JimStinehart AT aol.com:


James Christian:

Although I already answered both of your questions, I will answer them
again, this time making the answers simpler.

1. You wrote: “1) When do you see a boy becoming a man? Stating things
like 'In the ancient world ... blah, blah, blah' is not an answer unless you
are
willing to provide some evidence in some form. If your only evidence
is how they support your conclusions then this is called 'circular
reasoning' and is unlikely to convince me.”

The Jewish custom of a Bar Mitzvah at age 13 indicates that in the ancient
and medieval worlds, the approximate time at which a boy became a man was
age 13.

Your interpretation of the Bar Mitzvah speaking about the ancient and medieval worlds is not evidence. It is your interpretation. You are, as usual, heaping conjecture upon conjecture. Have you considered there being more than just two phases to a male's life cycle?

a) boyhood
b) adolescence
c) manhood
d) aged

Likewise, the fact that most females in the ancient world bore their
first child by age 15, and that age 13 was commonplace for a female to bear
her first child, indicates that a girl became a woman in the ancient world
at approximately the same time as a boy became a man.


Again. You talk about 'facts' but provide no evidence. Am I just supposed to take your word for it most girls naughtily got a bun in the oven between the ages of 10 and 12 when really they should have waited till the grand old age of 13 or are you actually going to start providing some primary source references at some point in this exchange?

2. You wrote: “2) How does the Quran's importance of the number 19
support you claims when there is no indication of whether their tradition refers
to 6
month years or 12 month years? Restating your interpretation and
embellishing me with further details of further conjectural
interpretations of similar style is not what I consider evidence. It
is just conjecture heaped on conjecture. Are you actually going to
offer any evidence in the near future or just keep embellishing
further conjectural ideas?”

It is an objective fact that the number 19 has outsized importance in the
Koran, and is viewed positively in the Koran. The most likely explanation
for that numerical fact is that the Koran correctly ascertained that in terms
of the 6-month “years” that are used to set forth everyone’s ages in the
Patriarchal narratives, Ishmael was age 19 “years” when he was exiled by his
father Abraham. (That is age 9½ in regular, 12-month years.) Thus the num
ber 19 symbolizes the birth of the Arabs, who later became Muslims. It was
when Ishmael was age 19 “years” in the Patriarchal narratives that Ishmael
is portrayed in the text as separating from the Abraham-Isaac line. That is
the explanation for the otherwise mysterious sura 74: 30 in the Koran:
"Over it is 19." The number 19 symbolizes Ishmael, the birth of the Arabs, and
the birth of Islam.


Ok! I am willing to take your word for it that 19 is an important number in the Koran. Please, please, please stop repeating this very simple point and address the issue. Why do you believe it to be 19 6 month years and not 12 month years. Nothing in the Koran or Islamic tradition leads you to this. You are supporting your conclusion by providing 'evidence' which you interpret in light of your conclusion. This is called 'circular' reasoning and most people on this mailing list are not impressed by that form of reasoning. It lacks any real scientific foundation.

Please don't bother replying again if all you are going to do is repeat the same stuff over and over again. Please attempt to show that you have even understood the nature of the questions.

James Christian

--
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.






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