Biblical Hebrew Forum

[dwashbur AT nyx.net]

It's a major highway along the coast of California.

On 7 Jun 2009 at 17:17, James Read wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> Quoting Gary Hedrick <GaryH AT cjfm.org>:
>
> > Karl, when are you guys going to see the light? The Hebrew text
> > really needs a lot of reinterpreting. It actually says that Abraham
> > lived in Van Nuys, in a family compound just off the 101.
>
>
> Just off the what?
>
> James Christian
>
> >
> > Gary Hedrick
> > San Antonio, TX
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of K Randolph
> > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:56 AM
> > To: B-Hebrew
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Phonetics of Ayin: Geography of Genesis
> >
> > Jim:
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:24 AM, <JimStinehart AT aol.com> wrote:
> >> Karl wrote:  "Genesis 20 referred to a completely different city, in the
> >> south, not Tyre in the north of Canaan. Further, Abimelekh was the king 
> >> of
> >> GRR, not CR...."
> >>
> >> For 2,500 years now, all scholars have agreed with Karl´s view that 
> >> Genesis
> >> 20: 1-2 refers to a locale south of Gaza.  But many people may be 
> >> surprised
> >> to find out that there is nothing in the secular history of the ancient
> >> world to support that traditional, non-historical view, even though no
> >> scholar has ever challenged it.
> >>
> > You repeatedly ramble on about secular history here, secular history
> > there, all the while ignoring that your view of "secular history" is
> > based on the religious works of an Egyptian priest Manetho
> > supplemented by a few other materials. And in ancient Egypt the
> > purpose of "history" was to make Egypt and its pharaohs look good. In
> > Manetho´s time, his purpose was to make Egyptian history look more
> > ancient, hence of greater value, than Greek history, so he padded
> > centuries into Egyptian history, when compared to archaeology, Greek
> > history, Biblical history, etc.
> >
> > Your "secular history" isn´t really secular.
> >
> > In contrast, Biblical history, while it concentrated on the spiritual
> > life of the people and kings, had as its main purpose an accurate
> > recording of the events, including the bad. Just like modern, secular
> > historians.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 3.  As previously discussed (being a modified version of an idea I 
> >> picked up
> >> from Karl), the seafaring people of Tyre may have compared the 
> >> "rolling"/GRR
> >> hills in Upper Galilee to their east to the "rolling" waves of the
> >> Mediterranean Sea to their west.
> >
> > This is an example of selective reporting on what others say.
> >
> > There is no evidence from the patriarchal accounts that Tyre even
> > existed yet in the Early Bronze Age, or if it did, there is no record
> > of any contact between the Patriarchs and Tyre.
> >
> > Secondly, and more importantly, the patriarchal accounts were written
> > from a landlubber´s POV (point of view), hence would not use a
> > nautical term.
> >
> > Thirdly, you continue to treat Semitic languages as if they were the
> > same as ancient Egyptian, which they weren´t.
> >
> >>
> >> 4.  As we have been discussing on this thread, %WR in the unpointed text 
> >> of
> >> Genesis 20: 1 is one possible, albeit non-standard, spelling of 
> >> Tyre/Ssur.
> >
> > Only in your mind. Every Hebrew scholar on this list and elsewhere
> > disagree with you here.
> >
> >>
> >> 5.  The name Abi-MLK at Genesis 20: 2 is the same as the name of the
> >> historical ruler of Tyre in the Amarna Letters.  The people of Tyre, 
> >> unlike
> >> most other people, honored the famous pagan god Baal under the name
> >> MLK/"King".  Virtually the only place in secular history where one would
> >> expect to see the name Abi-MLK is Tyre.  Surely the author of the
> >> Patriarchal narratives knew that!
> >>
> > Where is your Early Bronze Age "secular" historical source to back
> > that one up?
> >>
> >>
> >> 6.  Although NGB at Genesis 20: 1 has traditionally been thought to 
> >> refer to
> >> the Negev Desert, there in fact is no secular historical inscription
> >> pre-dating the common era to support that traditional view.  The only 
> >> NGB we
> >> have in ancient secular history is item #57 on the T III list, which
> >> probably is referencing a place in northern Canaan, likely located on the
> >> west coast of the Sea of Galilee.
> >>
> > This is so off the wall it´s not even worth discussing.
> >>
> >>
> >> 7.  We see that there is not a single secular historical inscription
> >> pre-dating the common era to support the traditional, non-historical
> >> southern view of the locale of Genesis 20: 1-2.  By stark contrast, all 5
> >> proper names in those two Bible verses have close matches to secular
> >> historical inscriptions from Bronze Age northern Canaan.  QD$, NGB and
> >> Abi-MLK are exact, letter-for-letter matches.  GRR is probably (though 
> >> not
> >> certainly) a letter-for-letter match to the KRR on the T III list.  The 
> >> only
> >> non-ideal linguistic match here is %WR as possibly referencing Tyre, 
> >> which
> >> is what we have been discussing on this thread.  Though %WR is not the 
> >> ideal
> >> rendering of Tyre, neither is the CR (which as a common word means 
> >> "enemy")
> >> that is used in most of the Bible to reference Tyre.  The sound of %WR is
> >> quite similar to CWR in a Bronze Age context, differing only in that the
> >> initial S-sound is not emphatic in %WR.  If one is willing to admit that 
> >> all
> >> spellings in the ancient world were not absolutely uniform and rigidly
> >> standardized throughout the millennia (especially before written Hebrew 
> >> is
> >> even attested), then perhaps one may be willing to consider %WR as 
> >> possibly
> >> being an early, archaic, non-standard spelling of similar-sounding
> >> Tyre/CWR/Ssur.
> >>
> > Here are your nested "if"s that put your whole conclusion between
> > tendentious to science fiction. Seeing as some of them are n-o-t
> > accepted by a majority to totality of Hebrew scholars, that makes your
> > conclusion unbelievable.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jim Stinehart
> >>
> >> Evanston, Illinois
> >
> > Karl W. Randolph.
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Dave Washburn

http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur