Biblical Hebrew Forum

[James Read <J.Read-2 AT sms.ed.ac.uk>]

Hi,

Quoting Gary Hedrick <GaryH AT cjfm.org>:

> Karl, when are you guys going to see the light? The Hebrew text   
> really needs a lot of reinterpreting. It actually says that Abraham   
> lived in Van Nuys, in a family compound just off the 101.


Just off the what?

James Christian

> Gary Hedrick
> San Antonio, TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org   
> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of K Randolph
> Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:56 AM
> To: B-Hebrew
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Phonetics of Ayin: Geography of Genesis
>
> Jim:
>
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:24 AM, <JimStinehart AT aol.com> wrote:
> > Karl wrote:  “Genesis 20 referred to a completely different city, in the
> > south, not Tyre in the north of Canaan. Further, Abimelekh was the king of
> > GRR, not CR….”
> >
> > For 2,500 years now, all scholars have agreed with Karl’s view that Genesis
> > 20: 1-2 refers to a locale south of Gaza.  But many people may be surprised
> > to find out that there is nothing in the secular history of the ancient
> > world to support that traditional, non-historical view, even though no
> > scholar has ever challenged it.
> You repeatedly ramble on about secular history here, secular history
> there, all the while ignoring that your view of “secular history” is
> based on the religious works of an Egyptian priest Manetho
> supplemented by a few other materials. And in ancient Egypt the
> purpose of “history” was to make Egypt and its pharaohs look good. In
> Manetho’s time, his purpose was to make Egyptian history look more
> ancient, hence of greater value, than Greek history, so he padded
> centuries into Egyptian history, when compared to archaeology, Greek
> history, Biblical history, etc.
>
> Your “secular history” isn’t really secular.
>
> In contrast, Biblical history, while it concentrated on the spiritual
> life of the people and kings, had as its main purpose an accurate
> recording of the events, including the bad. Just like modern, secular
> historians.
> > 3.  As previously discussed (being a modified version of an idea I picked up
> > from Karl), the seafaring people of Tyre may have compared the “rolling”/GRR
> > hills in Upper Galilee to their east to the “rolling” waves of the
> > Mediterranean Sea to their west.
>
> This is an example of selective reporting on what others say.
>
> There is no evidence from the patriarchal accounts that Tyre even
> existed yet in the Early Bronze Age, or if it did, there is no record
> of any contact between the Patriarchs and Tyre.
>
> Secondly, and more importantly, the patriarchal accounts were written
> from a landlubber’s POV (point of view), hence would not use a
> nautical term.
>
> Thirdly, you continue to treat Semitic languages as if they were the
> same as ancient Egyptian, which they weren’t.
>
> > 4.  As we have been discussing on this thread, %WR in the unpointed text of
> > Genesis 20: 1 is one possible, albeit non-standard, spelling of Tyre/Ssur.
>
> Only in your mind. Every Hebrew scholar on this list and elsewhere
> disagree with you here.
>
> > 5.  The name Abi-MLK at Genesis 20: 2 is the same as the name of the
> > historical ruler of Tyre in the Amarna Letters.  The people of Tyre, unlike
> > most other people, honored the famous pagan god Baal under the name
> > MLK/“King”.  Virtually the only place in secular history where one would
> > expect to see the name Abi-MLK is Tyre.  Surely the author of the
> > Patriarchal narratives knew that!
> Where is your Early Bronze Age “secular” historical source to back   
> that one up?
> > 6.  Although NGB at Genesis 20: 1 has traditionally been thought to refer to
> > the Negev Desert, there in fact is no secular historical inscription
> > pre-dating the common era to support that traditional view.  The only NGB we
> > have in ancient secular history is item #57 on the T III list, which
> > probably is referencing a place in northern Canaan, likely located on the
> > west coast of the Sea of Galilee.
> This is so off the wall it’s not even worth discussing.
> > 7.  We see that there is not a single secular historical inscription
> > pre-dating the common era to support the traditional, non-historical
> > southern view of the locale of Genesis 20: 1-2.  By stark contrast, all 5
> > proper names in those two Bible verses have close matches to secular
> > historical inscriptions from Bronze Age northern Canaan.  QD$, NGB and
> > Abi-MLK are exact, letter-for-letter matches.  GRR is probably (though not
> > certainly) a letter-for-letter match to the KRR on the T III list.  The only
> > non-ideal linguistic match here is %WR as possibly referencing Tyre, which
> > is what we have been discussing on this thread.  Though %WR is not the ideal
> > rendering of Tyre, neither is the CR (which as a common word means “enemy”)
> > that is used in most of the Bible to reference Tyre.  The sound of %WR is
> > quite similar to CWR in a Bronze Age context, differing only in that the
> > initial S-sound is not emphatic in %WR.  If one is willing to admit that all
> > spellings in the ancient world were not absolutely uniform and rigidly
> > standardized throughout the millennia (especially before written Hebrew is
> > even attested), then perhaps one may be willing to consider %WR as possibly
> > being an early, archaic, non-standard spelling of similar-sounding
> > Tyre/CWR/Ssur.
> Here are your nested “if”s that put your whole conclusion between
> tendentious to science fiction. Seeing as some of them are n-o-t
> accepted by a majority to totality of Hebrew scholars, that makes your
> conclusion unbelievable.
> > Jim Stinehart
> >
> > Evanston, Illinois
>
> Karl W. Randolph.
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