Biblical Hebrew Forum

[fred putnam <fred.putnam AT gmail.com>]

I originally sent this just to Peter by accident (I forget to use "reply to
all").

Peter & David (et al.),

I have often wondered about this: how can we know that a verb is
denominative rather than the noun being deverbal? I have read a fair amount
of theoretical and historical linguistics (Hebrew and general), but never
seen this discussed.

It seems that the theory of denominativization assumes that nouns precede
verbs in the development of a language; has this ever been demonstrated?

I'm not arguing against it, just wondering how sure we can be that things
worked/happened this way.

Peace.

Fred

P.S. My students had just read the chapter on the piel, and one asked (to
general head-nodding), "So what difference does this make, anyway? I mean,
why does it really matter that we know that these verbs are piel, since they
just sound normal?" A very interesting discussion ensued, as you might
imagine.

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:44 PM, David Kummerow 
<farmerjoeblo AT hotmail.com>wrote:

>
> Gday Peter,
>
> I had the thought when I was writing this that someone might pick me up
> on this. Sorry, I agree that the Piel also has a denominative function,
> and I did not mean to imply that it doesn't. I only left it out as it is
> the minor of the functions of the Piel, I think. But that's a hunch and
> I would need to do some research to see if it is accurate. Jenni likely
> lists the statistics, but his volume is in my son's bedroom. In any
> case, we agree as to the functions of the Piel.
>
> Now regarding the question of research comparing denominatives across
> the various binyanim, that is a great question! I cannot think of anyone
> who has done this. It would therefore make, I think, for a good phd
> topic for someone looking for one in Hebrew or Semitic linguistics. It
> would be quite valuable in my opinion.
>
> Regards,
> David Kummerow.
>
>
> > David wrote:
> >
> >  > Of course, as I've stated previously, the verbal plurality function
> >  > of the Piel I take as one of its functions, with a resultative/
> >  > causative/estimative function of (generally) stative verbs being
> >  > its other main function, as Jenni and others have shown.
> >  >
> >  > Regards,
> >  > David Kummerow.
> >
> > The qal, hifil, and piel themes are also used as denominatives. Jenni
> > and Ryder seem to disagree as to whether the piel as a denominative
> > functions the same as it does when a factitive. Stuart Creason in his
> > U Chicago dissertation _Semantic classes of Hebrew verbs_ deals with
> > the denominative function briefly, but his focus is more on the
> > relationship of the stems themselves. Do you know of any study that
> > compares qal, piel, and hifil denominatives, either for Hebrew or
> > Semitic in general, to see if there is any rhyme or reason for which
> > types of noun prefer a certain binyan?
> >
> > Peter Bekins
> >
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>



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Fred Putnam

Philadelphia Biblical University

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