Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Yakov Hadash <yakov.hadash AT gmail.com>]

I have a LOT of trouble getting tanach.us to work on the Mac. I'm not  
just talking about font issues, I'm talking about the whole web site.  
Whenever I go for an individual verse or specific passage, the Hebrew  
just doesn't show up. When I go for a full chapter, sometimes the  
Hebrew comes up but more often I just get nothing at all. This is on  
Firefox 3 RC3, Opera, and Camino. Of course Safari can't get anything  
at all from your web site.

I would suggest you add a link from your web site to MacSword like  
"For now it seems that Mac browsers have a difficult time with our web  
site, but you can access the WLC by using MacSword (link)."

It took me two years before I stumbled across MacSword which is the  
answer to most of my prayers. I don't know why it's such a secret.

Are there any Mac users out there who share my pain?

-Yakov Hadash
> From if AT math.bu.edu  Tue Jun 17 10:02:46 2008
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From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:02:30 -0400
To: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
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Cc: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] About Dagesh's
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Yigal,

It is not the Dagesh Xazak you are hearing, methinks, but an =20
inevitable faint echo produced by the pressing and releasing of the =20
tongue, as occuring in the production of the D sound in the word =20
KADUR, 'ball', which upon a slight lingering upon the D to stress it =20
becomes KADdUR. Such reading is independent of the dagesh in the D, =20
and would be naturally articulated this way by any speaker, aware or =20
unaware of a dagesh. The same thing happens to the L of $ALOM, =20
clearly sounding $ALLOM to me, the absence of any dagesh in the L =20
notwithstanding.
I admit, though, that in the Sabbath-night ZMIROT it is $AAA-LOM =20
ALEIII-KEM....

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Jun 17, 2008, at 12:16 AM, Yigal Levin wrote:

> Dear Issac,
>
> I know that you think that linguistics is not a science, but one =20
> could say
> the same about nature - who cares why the sun rises in the east and =20=

> sets in
> the west? The less we know the better. The purpose of "pure" =20
> theoretical
> science is to satiate our human curiosity about the world around =20
> us. Humans
> are a part of that world - that's why we study history, =20
> anthropology and
> social sciences (Yes, I know there are differnce in practice and in
> application...).
>
> The study of linguistics is meant to explain how languages develop and
> "work". But they also shape future development: once somebody, be =20
> it the
> masoretes, Medieval grammarians, Gesenius or Ben-Yehudah, codify =20
> the rules
> in order to explain existing phenomona, those rules are then taken =20
> as "fact"
> and influence (or: limit) further development. Understanding the =20
> development
> of the Dagesh's and of the BGDKPT rules is interesting to some (and =20=

> who ever
> is not intersted need not particpate in this thread). However they =20
> are a
> part of the Hebrew language as it has existed since the mesoretes, and
> that's the only REAL Hebrew we have. A few year ago, the Hebrew =20
> Language
> Academy "floated" the idea of officially doing away with niqud, =20
> which is not
> really used in most Hebrew writing anyway. The outcry was =20
> tremendous. Even
> though most Israelis hated learning the rules and don't really =20
> remember
> them, they do feel that they are a part of their language.
>
> I, BTW, certainly do "hear" (or maybe it's "feel") the Dagesh Hazaq =20=

> in daily
> speach. That could be because I know that it's there.
>
>
> Yigal Levin
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Isaac Fried" <if AT math.bu.edu>
> To: "Yakov Hadash" <yakov.hadash AT gmail.com>
> Cc: "b-hebrew Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] About Dagesh's
>
>
> > Yakov,
> >
> > Allow me to write V for a soft bet, and B for a hard. Also, F for a
> > soft pe and P for a hard. Recall also that $ is shin.
> > So we have in Hebrew DAVAR, 'thing, word', but also DABAR, 'leader,
> > speaker'. We have NAFAX, 'blew', but also NAPAX, 'blacksmith'.
> > I do not know why there is a dagesh in the middle radical of the piel
> > form, but does it practically matter now if we write NI$EK, 'kissed',
> > without a dagesh in the $? Those who pretend to read it NI$-$EK
> > delude themselves. I think that BK"P became hard thereby only
> > incidentally, but now we are stuck with this phenomenon and need to
> > say DIBER, not DIVER.
> > Look at the word KAF, 'palm of the hand'.  'My hand' is KAPI. Why is
> > the pe now dgusha? Because, say the grammar books, the word is from
> > the root KPP. So what? Does this have to turn an F into a P?
> > Conclusion: The less you explain the better off you are.
> >
> > Isaac Fried, Boston University
> >
> > On Jun 16, 2008, at 9:43 PM, Yakov Hadash wrote:
> >
> > > On Jun 16, 2008, at 8:11 PM, Isaac Fried wrote:
> > > > We will need to keep the dot, the "dagesh qal", in the letters
> > > > bet, kaf, pe to distinguish between their "hard" and "soft"
> > > > manifestation. Otherwise, the dagesh is redundant in plain speech.
> > >
> > > Yeah but you didn't address my issue.
> > >
> > > Without the dagesh hazak, there is no way of explaining a lot of
> > > confusing issues with vocalizing Hebrew, especially with =D7=A4=D7=99=D7=
=A2=D7=9C
> > > and =D7=94=D7=AA=D7=A4=D7=A2=D7=9C, which have dagesh hazak as part =
of the stem.
> > > Do you want people to just not be able to know why there's a noun
> > > "davar" and a verb "medabber" (and not "davar" and "medaver")?
> > >
> > > YH.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > b-hebrew mailing list
> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>
>
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