Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Kevin Riley" <klriley AT alphalink.com.au>]

Yigal
 
A quick response, mostly from memory, so may not be entirely accurate.
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: Yigal Levin
Date: 27/04/2008 5:37:05 PM
 
Dear Bryant and Kevin,
 
Thanks for this. Let's please NOT get into a debate between different
Christian denominations. On this list, at least, I think that we can each
respect the others' beliefs.
 
As a non-Christian, I find it fascinating that the average
Christian-in-the-street (of the vast Sunday-worshipping majority) does
simply assume that the Church teaches that the day on which God rested, the
"original" Sabbath, was on Sunday. Look at calendars in much of the Catholic
world (French calendars come to mind) which actually have Monday as the
first day of the week.
 
Why is it that most Christians today seem unaware of the theological basis
for Sunday worship?  Is it simply because it's easier for Sunday-school
teachers and pastors to tie the biblical Sabbath to the day that is now
observed by (almost) all Christians, and not get into complicated historical
and theological issues? Is this something that every person who goes into
seminary (or other advanced religious study) is made aware of at some stage
of his studies. I assume that every religion has various issues that, while
they are not "secret", are usually not discussed until a person reaches a
certain stage in his study. Judaism certainly has quite a few. Or is it more
than that?
 
*****************************
K:  It depends on the tradition. Sabbatarian churches, of course, introduce
this issue early - often during childhood, but more in the form of stories
than straight theology. Of the three I know of - SDA, Seventh-day Baptist
and the Worldwide Church of God [Armstrong's group] - the issue is dealt
with in Bible studies for lay members as well as in seminaries.  I think
most Christians would be aware of the change of days between the Jewish
practice and Christian practice, and that it is in honour of the
resurrection.  Beyond that, I don't think it has been a big issue for most
mainline churches.  In the Australian context, "Sabbath-keeping" was not a
focus of either the Anglican or Catholic church, but mostly of the
Presbyterians (and some Methodists in the early days).  The only churches I
know of today who argue for keeping Sunday as a Sabbath are a few
independent Baptist and Pentecostal groups.  As long as you turn up to one
worship service on Sunday, the rest of the day is pretty much your own to do
as you please.  The official teaching of virtually every major Christian
group is that Saturday is the Sabbath [with most understanding it to be for
the Jews and not Christians since the resurrection, or else a matter of
personal choice] and Sunday is the Christian day of worship.  Popular
understanding varies greatly on this and virtually every subject - and
bemoaning this fact concerning virtually every area of church life is one
thing all Christian leaders have in common :)
 
*******************************
 
Reacting to what Bryant wrote, of course Jesus and his original followers
were Jews and would have worshipped as did other Jews. The problem is that
we have very little information of what Jewish worship outside of the
Jerusalem Temple was like before the Destruction and the formulation of the
regular rabbinic prayer service. That there were synagogues both within and
outside of the Land of Israel we know, but just what sort of worship
occurred there we don't. We can assume that many gathered on the Sabbath to
hear the reading of the Torah and that this was acompanied by some sort of
prayers, but we have very few details. Luke 4:16-21 is actually the earliest
source that we have that shows that the Torah reading was followed by a
reading from the Prophets, now universally called the "Haftarah". The story
there is that Jesus eather did not read the expected passage or added his
own interpretation, which in any case got the people there upset. Of course,
there were probably some people who met daily for prayers as well, but not
most of the community.
 
***********************************
K:  Yes, that is a point that makes the discussion difficult - lack of
information makes definite pronouncements difficult for all sides.  There
are "holes" in the theories advanced by all sides due to that lack of data.
 
*********************************
 
Your quotation from I Corinthians 16:1-2 is intersting. One of the
differences between church and synagogue services is that since handling
money is considered a desicration of the Sabbath, there is no collection of
money in the synagogue on the Sabbath. Those who do attend weekday services
regularly put coins in a charity box, but no such collection is possible on
the Sabbath ("pledges" are taken in some synagogues, but then actual payment
must be made at a later date). So it makes sense for Paul to command  the
Corinthians to meet on Sunday in order to collect money.
 
***********************
K:  My understanding is that the offering of money grew out of the offering
of food and drink for the early agape meal and the totally separate
collection for the poor.  Whichever day the church met on for worship, it is
unlikely a collection of money was a central part of the worship.  The
collection of money during the service is still not a part of worship for
some churches.  Not long ago I had the chance to attend an early service at
an Anglo-Catholic [Anglican/Episcopal] church, followed 1/2 hr later by
attendance at the much larger Scots Church [Presbyterian].  One thing that
struck me was that the Anglicans had a procession where the Gospel was
processed as the central part of the service, then at Scots Church, it was
the offering that received the same treatment.  As someone of [partly]
Scottish descent, I could not help but draw totally unwarranted and
irreverent conclusions :) 
 
I would point out that the passage in Corinthians 16 does not say anything
about meeting, but commands each person to put aside money so that no
gathering would be necessary when Paul arrived.  I think most commentators
see it as something to be done privately at home, not in church.  That in
itself may indicate that at this stage offerings of money were not taken up
during worship.  As a worship leader I would gladly return to those "good
old days" as the offering is the most disruptive element in any worship
service.  To stay focused on worship while searching for coins [a Scottish
thing? :) ] is a thing beyond most of us.
 
Kevin Riley
 
*******************************
 
Thanks for all this.
 
Yigal Levin