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  • From: dwashbur AT nyx.net
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew as a Spoken Language vs. Aramaic
  • Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:25:22 -0700



On 26 Oct 2007 at 15:17, Bryant J. Williams III wrote:

> Dear Dave,
>
> The
> > interpretation of the Aramaic phrases are mentioned.
>
> Can you develop this a little more for me? I'm not sure what you're saying.
>
> I am thinking of Mark 5:41 and the raising of Jairus' daughter and the use
> of
> "Talitha Cum."

Or "ephphatha" in Mark 7:34. How do you see that relating to the
Hebrew/Aramaic
question?

Thanks,
Dave

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <dwashbur AT nyx.net>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 1:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Hebrew as a Spoken Language vs. Aramaic
>
>
> > On 26 Oct 2007 at 12:39, Bryant J. Williams III wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Dave,
> > >
> > > K. A. Kitchen, Ancient Orient and Old Testament, Chapter 7, "Principles
> > > of
> > > Linguistic Studies," III: (c), "The Question of Aramaisms," pp.
> > > 145-146. See
> > > also page 108, footnote 84.
> > >
> > > In this section of the book he cites or quotes the following: Eissfeldt,
> R.D.
> > > Wilson, BASOR 89 (1943), C.H. Gordon, C. Viirolleaud, E.J. Young, J.
> > > Aistleitner, M. Dahood, A. Dupont-Sommer, Wiseman, W.F. Albright, E.
> > > Forrer,
> E.
> > > Ebeling, B. Meissner, etc. just to list a few. He further uses the
> > > Amarna
> > > Letters and Assyrian texts from Tiglath-Pileser I of the prove the
> > > point.
> >
> > I'll have to see if I can get my hands on that work, because I'm not sure
> > I
> can see what the
> > Amarna letters or Assyrian texts would have to do with the so-called
> Intertestamental
> > Period.
> >
> > > What I think is happening is that when Aramaic became the official
> > > language
> of
> > > most of the Levant Hebrew was still spoken and used through to the
> > > Rabbinic
> > > period by the people.
> >
> > This is where we disagree. I think it was used by the religious leaders
> > and
> some of the elite,
> > but not by the common people except in contexts such as synagogue rites
> > etc.
> >
> > > The references to "Hebrew" in the New Testament is
> > > commonly understood to refer to Aramaic. I think this is wrong.
> >
> > Once again, we disagree. And I have no problem with that.
> >
> > The
> > > interpretation of the Aramaic phrases are mentioned.
> >
> > Can you develop this a little more for me? I'm not sure what you're
> > saying.
> >
> > > The references to Hebrew
> > > being spoken, e.g., Paul in the Temple precincts during his arrest, is
> actually
> > > Hebrew. The Sanhedrin meeting for Jesus' trial would have used Hebrew.
> >
> > Perhaps, though I doubt this is certain. In any case, Jesus probably
> > would
> have understood
> > it, being somewhat of an unofficial rabbi himself. As for Paul's
> > address, I
> think the jury is
> > still out, especially since we know that Aramaic was spoken and even have
> > some
> examples
> > of transliterated Aramaic, but there's no word in the New Testament for
> "Aramaic."
> >
> > An
> > > example of one language being used but another used at the same time
> > > would
> be
> > > Koine Greek during the ascendancy of the Roman Empire from roughly 200
> > > BC to
> 200
> > > AD. Greek was the official language of the Roman Empire, while Latin was
> still
> > > used. By 200 AD, if not earlier, the situation reversing itself, at
> > > least in
> the
> > > West, while Greek was still used by the Byzantine Greek East.
> >
> > But once again, we're not talking about a complete displacement of the
> > people
> to a land
> > where a different language was spoken and nobody gave a rip what their
> previously-native
> > tongue was. So Greek really isn't analogous.
> >
> > > From a closer time
> > > period, after the Battle of Hastings, Norman French was used in England
> > > by
> the
> > > nobility, but it was the Saxon English that was used by the common
> > > people.
> > > Eventually, although Latin was still used in churches, official decrees,
> etc.,
> > > it was English that was understood by almost everyone.
> >
> > Same objection. The English weren't transported back to France where
> > English
> wasn't used
> > at all.
> >
> > > Thus, I can still see
> > > very much of Hebrew being understood by all classes of people through
> > > the
> > > Rabbinic period especially considering that Latin, Greek, Hebrew was
> > > used on
> the
> > > indictment of Jesus.
> >
> > The question there would be, who wrote it? If the Sanhedrin wrote it, it
> might have been
> > Hebrew. But the stories tell us the Roman procurator wrote it and the
> Sanhedrin objected to
> > it. Would Pontius Pilate be likely to have known Hebrew? Considering
> > what we
> know about
> > the man, he probably thought both languages sounded like gibberish :-) and
> couldn't have
> > cared less which one actually went on the placard. I'm assuming he had an
> underling do
> > the actual work, and can easily see him telling such an underling, "Write
> > it
> in Latin and
> > Greek and whatever that other noise is that these people make." So
> > again, it
> seems to me
> > that the evidence is equivocal, at the very least.
> >
> >
> > Dave Washburn
> > Why do it right when you can do it again?
> > _______________________________________________
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Dave Washburn
Why do it right when you can do it again?




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