Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 20: 1

b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Tory Thorpe <torythrp AT yahoo.com>
  • To: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Cc: JimStinehart AT aol.com
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 20: 1
  • Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 20:51:50 -0400

I favor 'Ain Qedeis, 80 kil. south of Beer-Sheba, as the Qadesh of the Patriarchal narratives. It preserves the right name and agrees with a literary/topographic analysis. It is nothing more than an accident of survival that no source earlier than the Hebrew Bible mentions 'Ain Qedeis on the edge of southern Israel, for it most certainly did exist in patriarchal times along with two other springs in the area: 'Ain el-Qureirat and 'Ain Qoseimeh. We are in no need of secular historical evidence here, although epigraphy would be nice, since the location of 'Ain Qedeis matches the biblical geography and Qadesh is reflected in the modern name of the site. To go looking for the Qadesh of Genesis 20:1 in Lebanon makes no sense, at all. Similarly, the modern Darb el-Shur extending from Hebron to Egypt must be, in the economy of assumptions, the first road to travel in any search of the biblical Shur that was situated south of Qadesh. To say we should look north for a place located south can't be taken seriously given the alternatives.

It is certainly no contradiction of the sacred text to say Hagar's wilderness was called Beer-Sheba in retrospect by the biblical author. Everyone knows, or should know by now, Christopher did not discover a place called "America". You say it defies credulity that Abraham would eventually end up where Hagar found water. Why? If there was no water there until Hagar came there definitely would be people, yes conceivably proto-Philistines from the coast and why not Abraham ahead of these, coming there immediately after it became known. Your attempt to make the opening words of Genesis 21:22, and what follows it, perfectly synchronous with Hagar's good fortune seems to me like a bit of special pleading, since events happening back-to-back may also be described with the statement "it came to pass at that time."

You ask: "Wouldn't a Hebrew author portray the proto-Philistines as being foreigners to Canaan?" Maybe if he was trying to support your theory. The name Abi-Melek says absolutely nothing about the origins of Abi-Melek, or even his native language. Same with Phicol. This is outdated 19th century scholarship.

Abraham moved from Bethel to Mamre, in Hebron, according to Gen. 13:18. Here was still in Mamre the day before the destruction of Sodom, and there is nothing in Gen. chs. 18-22 about him supposedly going back to Bethel to witness this destruction. In Gen. 18:33 he is returning to Mamre. In Gen. 19:27 he wakes up and returns to the spot in Gen. 18:22, on the line between Mamre and Sodom, to see the smoke of Sodom. In Gen. 20:1 he is leaving Mamre and heading SOUTH. He makes a stop somewhere between Qadesh ('Ain Qedeis) and Shur, and eventually moves on to Gerar.

Tory Thorpe




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page