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  • From: Tory Thorpe <torythrp AT yahoo.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] virginity
  • Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 07:54:38 -0400

On Jul 19, 2007, at 2:20 AM, dwashbur AT nyx.net wrote:

We have to be very careful about inferring too much from Ugaritic. It's a cognate, not a
precise parallel. Gordon, Dahood and a couple of others had a tendency to carry such
things a little too far, and their conclusions have not been generally accepted.

Gordon reached all sorts of conclusions. And not that facts are determined by hand raising but there is wide acceptance that no one word in the languages of the ancient Near East (other than perhaps BH) by itself means virgo intacta. The evidence from Ugaritic, Aramaic, South Arabic, and especially Mishnaic Hebrew is a reason to put BH on that list.

As for Joel 1:8, first, it's poetry, which takes a lot of liberties in any and every language where it exists. Second, the term rendered "husband" is BA(AL, which as the NIV notes, may also mean
"betrothed."

How are you, and how is the NIV, defining "betrothed"?

The Genesis passages actually undermine your case, because both passages
and terms clearly refer to a girl who is marriage material, clearly virginal.

If 'almah meant strictly virgin that word would have been sufficient in the pericope since the matriarch is marriage material.

The PARQENOS passages have been severally debated in the literature on ancient Greek, and the fact that you choose the one article that supports your idea proves only that you choose the one
article that supports your idea, nothing more.

Yes, and I could cite many more. The question is does PARQENOS always mean "virgin" and the answer is no. If it means "virgin" in Isa. vii 14 (LXX) prove that please without Matthew.

Instead of taking someone else's word for it, have you read the Ugaritic for yourself?

I have and I don't see a word there for "virgin" as it is understood in English.

Tory Thorpe




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