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  • From: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
  • To: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] virginity
  • Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 08:19:46 +0300

Dear Shoshanna,

The long halakhic explanation that you gave is just what you wrote it is:
the rabbinic understanding of the passage, within the context of rabbinic
halakhah. Basically, it's the rabbis' way of minimizing what they realized
is a problematic law; they were aware of the fact that there was no law
against an unmarried (and unbetrothed) woman having sex, so they interpreted
this passage as really only refering to an arusah (betrothed woman). But the
distinction does not really appear in the text. If you wish to believe that
rabbinic interpretation is based on the Oral Torah, given to Moses but of
which we have no evidence until the rabbis wrote it down, that's fine, but
please remember that that's a matter of faith, which is NOT what this list
is supposed to be about.

Yigal Levin


----- Original Message ----- From: "Yigal Levin" <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
To: "Shoshanna Walker" <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] virginity


Dear Shoshanna,

The long halakhic explanation that you gave is just what you wrote it is: the rabbinic understanding of the passage, within the context of rabbinic halakhah. Basically, it's the rabbis' way of minimizing what they realized is a problematic law; they were aware of the fact that there was no law against an unmarried (and unbetrothed) woman having sex, so they interpreted this passage as really only refering to an arusah (betrothed woman). But the distinction does not really appear in the text. If you wish to believe that rabbinic interpretation is based on the Oral Torah, given to Moses but of which we have no evidence until the rabbis wrote it down, that's fine, but please remember that that's a matter of faith, which is NOT what this list is supposed to be about.

Yigal Levin

----- Original Message ----- From: "Shoshanna Walker" <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 2:58 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] virginity



Dear Harold, you are oversimplifying things, and you are inserting
your own ideas about morality into the Torah, which is talking about
something completely different.

It is not a moral passage, it is a halachic and LEGAL passage, and in
order to understand it - you have to know Halacha, ie; ORAL TORAH.

There are two stages in Jewish marriage - Kiddushin and Nesuin.
Kiddushin is effected when the groom gives his bride a ring or
something else of value, and makes a declaration that, nowadays is
recited under the chuppa. It is a legal transaction, but there is
not a good English translation, so it is sometimes called "betrothal"
but betrothal does not indicate properly that Kiddushin establishes a
stronger and more legal obligation than an "engagement". After
Kiddushin, the couple is halachically married, and the bride is
subject to the death penalty for adultery - even BEFORE Nesuin, after
which the couple may cohabit.

In this passage, the husband accuses his new wife of not being a
virgin - ie; that SHE HAD COHABITED WITH ANOTHER MAN AFTER KIDDUSHIN.

If adultery CANNOT be proven, EVEN IF IT WERE TRUE THAT SHE WAS NOT A
VIRGIN AT THE TIME OF KIDDUSHIN, she is not subject to any punishment
by the court, BECAUSE SHE WAS PERMITTED TO COHABIT WITH A MAN BEFORE
KIDDUSHIN, ie; when she was NOT legally married to anyone.

Even so, however, she would not be entitled to collect the divorce
settlement stipulated in her marriage document, because she falsely
misrepresented herself.

THE SUBJECT OF THIS PASSAGE IS A HUSBAND WHO COMES TO HATE HIS NEW
WIFE AND TRIES TO VOID THE KETUBA BY WANTONLY ACCUSING HER OF
ADULTERY (and thereby he violates the prohibition of "Motzei Shem Ra"
- defamation)

Deut 22: 23-24 and 28-29 - "meOrasha" "Orasha" ("BETROTHED") - same
issue as above. Proof that this is not talking about a "virgin" is
that the text says "Betula meOrasha" - a maiden (assumed to be a
virgin) who is BETROTHED - ie; LEGALLY BOUND TO A MAN (ie; not just a
simple "virgin")

Verse 21 is proof that this is talking about a woman who is accused
of adultery - "Asta Nevala" - (committed adultery) and not the modern
morality of a woman who is not a virgin - remember a woman was
ALLOWED to be concubines, ie; living with a man and not married to
him - and there is no stigma or legal punishment against her - as I
said, a woman is only liable for one of the forbidden sexual
relationships outlined by the Torah, and single unmarried woman
having sexual relationship with a man not her father, brother, or a
woman, or an animal, is fine.

In verses 28 - 29, the man who has cohabited with a BETROTHED woman
has to marry her, because SHE WOULD THEN NO LONGER (after sex with
another man) BE ALLOWED TO COHABIT WITH HER HUSBAND, IE; THE MAN SHE
WAS BETROTHED TO.

Lev. 21:14 is an ENTIRELY different matter - it is about the special
rules for a Kohen, who has to maintain a higher degree of purity,
therefore he cannot marry any woman who had been married to, ie; had
sexual relations, with anyone else.

Shoshanna



HH: It is a moral issue in the passage that we
have been discussing,
Deut 22:13-21. This is the main passage on the
subject. It is talking
about a moral issue, that of sexual purity. The
idea is that men wanted
pure wives, not women that other men had possessed
sexually. Virginity
is also a moral issue in other biblical laws: Deut
22:23-24, Deut
22:28-29. There is an implied moral element in Lev
21:14. The issue of
virginity probably lies behind the words in Song
of Solomon 8:8-10. One
of the Shulamite's attractions for Solomon was the
purity of her virginity.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard


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