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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Definite Article 7:14

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  • From: JoeWallack AT aol.com
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Definite Article 7:14
  • Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 19:31:19 EDT

In a message dated 7/10/2007 1:17:27 PM Central Daylight Time,
peter AT qaya.org writes:

JW:> ... In order to try and
> avoid this contingency let me try to speed things up here. Regarding the
> offending word of 7:14 and with Apologies to Isaac Fried, you and I agree
that
> the Hebrew Definite article is used. My position is that for starters this

> indicates a defnite and therefore, known person to the Hebrew speaker,
Isaiah. ...

PQ:I agree with your exegesis.
JW:
The Hebrew definite article normally indicates a person known to the Hebrew
speaker. This is a Translation consideration and not Exegesis. Specifically
here, Isaiah, the user of the definite article, would be Implied to know the
identity underlying the use of the Definite article which is useful for
Context. Still a Translation issue. Of course other specifics could indicate
that
Isaiah did not know the identity.


JW:

> ... At
> this point, whether or not this known person is known to the Hebrew
hearer, I
> say that "the" is the likely English translation. ...

PQ:I disagree with your conclusions for the best English translation. In
English "this" would probably be used for a known person who has not
previously been referred to, at least implicitly. If "the" is used when
no such person has been previously referred to, even implicitly, the
only possible meaning is the generic one, in this case a reference to
all young women.


JW:
"This" has a connotation of Selection as oppossed to "the". There is no
context in 7:14 regarding the selection of this young woman from the category
of
available young women. This is why, as far as I know, nobody is translating
"this" here. "This" would be, as the ancient British Knight said in "The Last

Crusade", "chose poorly".

As I previously indicated by numerous examples, "the" can establish the
context all by itself. I picked up the cat. I took the bus. You missed the
bus
here.

As we proceed to other issues we will get into a Tale wagging the Dogma
issue. Do we let the specific word used establish the context or do we let
the
context translate the word.

PQ: "If "the" is used when
no such person has been previously referred to, even implicitly, the
only possible meaning is the generic one, in this case a reference to
all young women."

JW:
You are creating a lot of distance here between what you write and what I
consider to be good translation considerations. You could top this though by
once again claiming that the previous is not proof-texting. Anyway, as I
consider the use of the definite article as probably the most objective
consideration regarding what the English translation should be, and we have
such
disagreement on what its value is here, I'm pessimistic regarding agreement
on more
subjective issues.



Joseph Wallack





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