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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Psalm 149:7 - Leningrad Codex Varient: Bal-Umim

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  • From: Peter Kirk <peter AT qaya.org>
  • To: Brak <Brak AT neo.rr.com>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Psalm 149:7 - Leningrad Codex Varient: Bal-Umim
  • Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 00:39:27 +0100

(Note that the first part of this is essentially the same as what I wrote to Brak offlist and he quoted back to the list)

On 22/04/2007 03:55, Brak wrote:
Sorry about the missing alephs. I thought I had typed them.

I was wondering of the word )UM.IYM was related to the word "mother".

Now you state that L:)OM and I would assume you would also include the words in question )UM.IYM and L:)UM.IYM is most likely not related to )UM.IYM and )UM.FH
I was wondering why you think that. To my limited knowledge it would appear that )UM.IYM was the basis for L:)UM.IYM and that in fact L:)UM.IYM should be morphed as L:/)UM.IYM to mean "to people" or "for people"? Or would it be some grammar thing in which the L: is doing something to the word instead of adding "to"?

I think that because Hebrew does not have prefixed nouns. That is, prefixes like L- can be attached to nouns to make prepositional phrases, hence L- attached to )UM.IYM makes "to the people". But this does not make a new noun with a modified meaning, as it would in Greek or Latin, or to some extent in English e.g. "stander" > "bystander". So the noun L:)UM.IYM, despite looking identical to L- plus )UM.IYM, must be from a separate root. At least, that is standard Hebrew grammar and lexicography. I would not say that exceptions are impossible, but it would need high level expertise to argue the case for this being one.
Also, I checked in the Aleppo Codex and it has BAL:)UM.IYM so I am wondering is the LC the only one with this variant.

According to the notes in BHS at Psalm 44:15, "mlt Mss Edd" have the Aleppo reading, which is explained as between 20 and 60 of the manuscripts and editions consulted. This is to be distinguished from "permlt Mss" meaning more than 60. The implication seems to be that there is more than one manuscript or edition which does not agree with Aleppo.

On 22/04/2007 03:55, Brak wrote:
Please excuse my ignorance here, but I'm kind of confused.

Let me restate what I think I'm hearing:

)UM.IYM means "peoples"
L: means "to" or "for"

L:)UM.IYM means "peoples"

But L:)UM.IYM does not mean L: plus )UM.IYM

Well, L:)UM.IYM COULD mean L: plus )UM.IYM, in other words "to peoples", but it does not mean that when it means "peoples", which is what it means in Genesis 25:23 and 28 other places. Note that "to peoples" and "peoples" do NOT mean the same thing! For in these 29 places L:)UM.IYM is the plural of the noun L:)OM, also found in the singular in Genesis 25:23 (twice) and in two other places. If you look at how L:)UM.IYM is used, it is quite clearly a noun on its own, not a noun with a preposition prefix.

I hope Pere's explanation has also helped you.

That just doesn't make sence. Both )UM.IYM and L:)UM.IYM look identical except the one has L: added and they both mean the same thing "peoples" but yet they are not related????

I hope my confusion on this makes sence. Logic would dictate (at least in my mind) they are are realted - look alike means the same.

Can I please recieve an explaination as to why - how despite looking identical and meaning identical things that they are not related?

All I can say is that there are lots of things in this world which look very similar but are not related. You need to look a bit deeper than surface appearances.

Peter

--
Peter Kirk
E-mail: peter AT qaya.org
Blog: http://www.qaya.org/blog/
Website: http://www.qaya.org/





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