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Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4)
- From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
- To: Bob MacDonald <bobmacdonald AT shaw.ca>
- Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4)
- Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:31:15 -0500
Bob,
You ask: "Does the dagesh occur in the original or is it also a Masoretic invention?"
In my opinion the dgeshim system preceded the Masoretic punctuation system. The point is the minimal geometrical object, and it stands to reason that inserting it into the sacred text (as a harmless word separator in a school text, for instance) was a first and early step before the NAKDANIM took the bolder step of adding the more complex vowel-sytem signs. Unexaggerated gemination is a natural phonetic phenomenon that does not require a dagesh indicator. I do not think that the Masoretes "heard a-vowel + gemination of the first root (sic) consonant"; I, for one, cannot hear it. In fact, we do not know what the Masoretes saw and what they heard (where?).
I repeat what I said: The dagesh after the "waw conversive" has no phonetic function. It is placed there to indicate the first letter of the verb.
Isaac Fried, Boston University
On Mar 4, 2007, at 9:02 PM, Bob MacDonald wrote:
Thanks for all the contributions on this subject. In spite of the rather
confusing terminology - all those kill and be killed verbs - it has been
informative of linguistic issues and the disagreements.
I found a useful paper at
http://www.basicsofbiblicalhebrew.com/images/wayyiqtol1.pdf
I find it curious, that the form of the waw conversive, or not, is contained
in the vowel markings and a dagesh forte.
Does the dagesh occur in the original or is it also a Masoretic invention?
Bob
Bob MacDonald
Victoria BC
http://gx.ca
http://bmd.gx.ca
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Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4)
, (continued)
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Peter Kirk, 03/05/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Rolf Furuli, 03/05/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Peter Kirk, 03/05/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Vadim Cherny, 03/06/2007
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4), Isaac Fried, 03/06/2007
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4), Vadim Cherny, 03/06/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Vadim Cherny, 03/06/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Peter Kirk, 03/05/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Rolf Furuli, 03/05/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Peter Kirk, 03/05/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Bob MacDonald, 03/04/2007
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4), Isaac Fried, 03/04/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Isaac Fried, 03/05/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Peter Kirk, 03/05/2007
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4), Isaac Fried, 03/05/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Peter Kirk, 03/05/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Rolf Furuli, 03/05/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Peter Kirk, 03/05/2007
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4), Rolf Furuli, 03/05/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
Peter Kirk, 03/05/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4),
David Kummerow, 03/04/2007
- Re: [b-hebrew] Verbal Aspect (was Tenses - Deut 6:4), David Kummerow, 03/05/2007
-
Re: [b-hebrew] Passive Qal vs Hoph'al?,
pporta, 03/05/2007
- Re: [b-hebrew] Passive Qal vs Hoph'al?, Yitzhak Sapir, 03/08/2007
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