Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Steve Miller" <smille10 AT sbcglobal.net>]

> From: K Randolph Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 10:16 AM
> 
> Steve:
> 
> On 9/22/06, Steve Miller <smille10 AT sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> > [Steve Miller] Thanks Karl. So you are saying that M$YX NGYD in v25 is
> just
> > one person, and different from M$YX in v26. What then is the meaning of
> "and
> > 62 weeks" in v25? "From the going forth of the word to restore and to
> build
> > Jerusalem unto Messiah, the Prince, are seven weeks, and sixty-two
> weeks."
> > If maschiach nageed came at 7 weeks only, why does it say "and 62
> weeks"?
> >
> > Also, I know that you had already mentioned what you repeated above, but
> I
> > was asking you something a bit different - was maschiach nageed in v25
> one
> > person or 2 persons? But since you restated what you had said before, I
> > gather that your answer is "one person".
> >
> I misunderstood your question, I thought you were conflating the two
> uses of M$YX in verses 25 and 26 to mean one person or were there two
> different M$YX. I understand that there were two different
> individuals, the one in verse 25 M$YX NGYD and the one in verse 26
> referred to only a M$YX. The one in verse 25 is one individual.
> 
> As for the 62 sevens mentioned in verse 25, it is after mentioning the
> number of sevens to the first M$YX, namely M$YX NGYD, where the focus
> has returned to the city. Those 62 sevens have no relationship to M$YX
> NGYD. Look at the context.
  
[Steve Miller] So then what does "and 62 sevens" in v25 mean?

> 
> > >
> > > Concerning the question whether the time spans were contiguous or not,
> > > either all of them were, or none. All the time spans are given using
> > > the same linguistic and literary structures, so if one can have a gap,
> > > then it is possible that all of them have gaps. If all of them can
> > > have gaps, then the use of this prophecy to indicate the approximate
> > > year of Jesus' death and resurrection is meaningless. But if none of
> > > the spans have gaps, then the Dispensationalist understanding is
> > > wrong.
> >
> > [Steve Miller] I agree with your logic. I disagree with one of your
> facts:
> > "All the time spans are given using the same linguistic and literary
> > structures". Dan 9:24 is unique. I fail to see its similarity compared
> to
> > other time spans in the Bible. "70 weeks are divided upon your people
> and
> > upon your holy city to ....". What other time span in the Bible is given
> in
> > a similar form to this? The Hebrew word for "divided" XTK is used only
> in
> > this one place in the Bible. Ernest Klein's Etymological Dictionary of
> the
> > Hebrew Language gives the meaning from Aramaic "cut" or from Arabic
> "tear
> > apart". LXX translated it with "suntemno" = cut in pieces.
> >
> All the time spans in these few verses are given in the same
> linguistic and literary structures. Therefore, if one can have gaps in
> it, then all can have gaps. If the others don't have gaps, then the
> one does not either.
 
[Steve Miller] Please explain how "Seventy weeks are divided upon thy people
and upon thy holy city, to ..." in v24 has the same linguistic and literary
structure as:
"From the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem unto
Messiah, the Prince, are seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks." In v25
"he shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week." In v27

> 
> As for the meaning of XTK, this is a hapax legomai. the context
> indicates that it has the meaning of "to be determined" (as defined in
> Lisowski Konkordanz). Looking at the LXX, the term συντεμνω has the
> meaning of "to delimit" (i.e. cut off what is beyond as in territory
> of a kingdom), "to shorten" as in abridging speech or of time, "to
> limit" as in expenses, but nowhere is it used to mean "to cut into
> pieces" (that is one of the uses of τεμνω). Assuming that the
> translators of the LXX used the right term, and looking at its
> context, "to determine" may best be understood in an archaic sense, as
> in bringing to an end, limiting.
 
[Steve Miller] What is a hapax legomai? Let me ask you this, if XTK could
mean "cut in pieces", then would you say that it is possible for the 70th
week to be separated from the rest? Thanks.

> 
> Looking at cognate languages should only be suggestions, as the words
> may have very similar meanings, or even opposite meanings, or some
> other unpredictable variation in meaning when crossing the language
> barrier.