Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Albert & Julia Haig <albert_and_julia AT yahoo.com.au>]

Thanks Harold and Herman. This is a useful text. I agree with Herman that 
Luke is an original Greek composition, but he presumably sourced Mary's 
speech from somewhere, and, I agree, the original speech (again, assuming its 
historical authenticity) was most likely in Hebrew/Aramaic. However, it is 
possible that Luke was fairly "free" rendering Mary's statements into Greek, 
so it's a bit hard to know exactly what Mary would have said in the original 
language. This makes it a bit less useful than the shema' case, where we have 
the original Hebrew.

God bless,

Albert Haig.

Harold Holmyard <hholmyard AT ont.com> wrote:

    Dear Herman,

    >2006/4/7, Harold R. Holmyard III :
    >
    >
    >>HH: I ran across an interesting phrase in Luke 1:51, which makes one
    >>wonder what the Hebrew or Aramaic original was. Mary says that God
    >>scattered "ones proud in the mind of their hearts." The word "mind"
    >>is DIANOIA, which can also mean intention, purpose, thought,
    >>attitude, or understanding, according to the dictionary that comes
    >>with the UBS text. It is translated "imagination" by the KJV. So it
    >>could have been a word like maHshavot ('thoughts'), as you have it
    >>above.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >Why would there be a "Hebrew or Aramaic original"? No evidence for the
    >suggestion that Luke was not an original Greek composition exists. I
    >agree it is a very "Jewish" text, but Jewishness and language don't
    >always have anything to do with each other. Luke's hebraistic style
    >may just as well be inspired by the LXX.
    >
    >

    HH: I was talking about Mary's original words, not some presumed Hebrew
    or Aramaic original of Luke's Gospel. Albert wanted to assume that
    people spoke Aramaic or Hebrew at this time in Palestine, and I was
    going along with this idea. But it is quite likely that Albert is
    correct that people spoke Aramaic or Hebrew, and that Mary would have
    spoken this way.

    Yours,
    Harold Holmyard


                
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>From tladatsi AT charter.net  Sun Apr  9 01:22:16 2006
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Subject: [b-hebrew] Flying or Darting in Isaiah 14:29 and 30:6
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Hello,

I think the contex  is still against a literial reading of *flying* whether a 
pterosaur or a winged snake or a cockatrice.   In Isaiah 14:26 the sequence 
of images and metaphors are there is a ordinary snake (nakhach) which is a 
root (sheresh).  From this root grows a stem or trunk, another ordinary snake 
(tsefa').  The fruit of this root and stem is the *saraf m'ofef*.

I read the sequence as ordinary snake (nakhach) gives rise to ordinary snake 
(tsefa') gives rise to ordinary snake (saraf m'ofef).  I do not see any 
pattern or logic that would lead to a pattern of *snake - snake - flying 
snake*.   King Ahaz had just died and the Philistines were rejoicing as Ahaz 
had been scourge to them.  The image is that from the root of Ahaz (someone 
dangerous to the philistines as a snake might be) would arise some just as 
dangerous, his son (an other snake, even more dangerous) so don't rejoice.   
I would venture that the sequence is one of increasing degree of deadlyness 
of the venom of the three snakes.  Saraf has as its root the sensation of 
burning, as a snakes venom has.  So if the reader / listener associate *saraf 
m'ofef* as the most venomous of the three snakes, the sequence makes sense.  
The aspect of flying does add any extra danger. 

--
Jack Tladatsi