Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Harold Jenkerson" <jenks AT gilanet.com>]

Steve,

Thanks for the replies Steve, George, and Karyn.

Genesis 3.8

I would translate as such; "They heard the voice of the Lord God walking in
the garden in the Spirit on that day" for the following reasons:

1. Genesis 1.2 states that the Spirit of God was active in creation and
Genesis 2.7 carries that movement onward by stating that God breath into the
nostrils of the man and he became a living soul. In Genesis 7.22, we read
from the Hebrew text that God destroyed all flesh that had the spirit of the
breath of life. It appears that the spirit of Genesis 7.22 and Genesis 2.7
are the impartation of life from the source of life, which is the Spirit of
God. The translation above follows in this same vein. The voice of God that
came walking and the Spirit were presence at that confrontation.

I am beginning with a New Testament concept and reading back into the Old
Testament text. However, the New Testament concept has its foundation in the
Old Testament text. The first chapter of the Gospel of John points us in
that direction.

2. I find some support for this translation in:

BDB 1st Edition page 516

l - 6a

Gesenius 2nd English Edition page 297

101 Prepositions b

3. Of the seven Hebrew text locations where this grammatical form of
 "spirit" with the preposition prefixed is found, six of them are translated
with a meteorological meaning (Gen 3.8; 2 Chr 18.21; Job 28.25; Ecc 5.15;
Jer 5.13; Jer 13.24; Eze 5.2). However, the one in 2 Chronicles 18.21 uses
the translation of "spirit." In this text the "lying" is an adjective
modifying the noun "spirit." Whereas, in Genesis 3.8 it is the "spirit" that
is in the construct state governing the meaning of "day."

4. There is nothing in the text to substantiate the translation of "cool or
evening." It must be assumed that it was at the end of the day that the Lord
God came to Adam and Eve, and then it would be assumed that since it is
evening it would be cool among the trees. However, there is nothing in the
context to substantiate such a translation. Whereas, my translation is more
in line with what we find throughout the message of the Bible that God comes
to us in the person of His Spirit and we hear His voice.

Harold Jenkerson

New Mexico

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 10:00 AM
Subject: b-hebrew Digest, Vol 39, Issue 11


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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: shwa (Vadim Cherny)
>    2. Re: Tithe (Vadim Cherny)
>    3. Re: shwa (Herman Meester)
>    4. Re: Genesis 3.8 (Harold Jenkerson)
>    5. Re: Genesis 3.8 (George Athas)
>    6. Re: Genesis 3.8 (Steve Miller)
>    7. Re: Genesis 3.8 (Karyn Traphagen)
>    8. New Student (Alan Calcutt)
>    9. hell (STORMVOLCANO AT aol.com)
>   10. Re: hell (Alexander Oldernes)
>   11. Re: New Student (Ken Penner)
>   12. Re: shwa (Dr. Joel M. Hoffman)
>   13. Re: shwa (Yitzhak Sapir)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:32:20 +0200
> From: "Vadim Cherny" <VadimCherny AT mail.ru>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] shwa
> To: "Dr. Joel M. Hoffman" <joel AT exc.com>, <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <004001c646c4$16d1cb60$0402a8c0@LG>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r"
>
>
> > >I would like to ask the interested members' opinion on the origin of
> > >the word ???? shtayim.
> > >Remarkably, this word has a shwa with the shin, but a dagesh in the
taw.
> > >A so-called shwa na` (mobile) is supposed not to be followed by a
> > >sharp begedkepet consonant sign:
>
> That is merely imprecise mnemonic rule.
> Shtaim was originally used in smihuth, thus accent shift and consequential
> reduction to shtei, normalized as shtaim. As for the dagesh, it indicates
> the original form of piel or haial. Haial seems more plausible for me.
> In other words, shtaim is a haial noun (or piel verb) commonly used in
> smihuths.
>
> > But once you come to the realization that a shwa represents the lack
> > of a vowel --- no more, no less --- everything because eaiser and more
> > sensible.
>
> What vowel is lacked in nizcar? Interconsonantal schwa represents not a
> vowel but consonantal vocalization, important in chanting to break the
> clusters (ne-z'-car). Indeed, I argue that all Hebrew words originate from
> CV, thus zacer - nzacer - nezcar, but that loss of the vowel took place
long
> before the Masoretes added interconsonantal schwa, which represents not a
> vowel, but vocalization.
>
> Vadim Cherny
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:40:05 +0200
> From: "Vadim Cherny" <VadimCherny AT mail.ru>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Tithe
> To: "Kevin Riley" <klriley AT alphalink.com.au>, "B Hebrew"
> <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <004701c646c5$2e5371c0$0402a8c0@LG>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> The idea of charity in Torah is to avoid extreme hardship. Thus only
widows
> and orphans are entitled to glean. In order to survive, they need to eat,
> and so only basic foodstuffs are tithed, not anything else. As Hebrew
> society became more affluent, the definition in the later book was
expanded
> a bit to include basic crops, olive oil and wine.
> Christianity set ideal goals, such as distributing all assets in order to
be
> perfect, and naturally expanded tithe to all products.
> Rabbinic Judaism moved in the same direction likely when Jews in Diaspora
> did not engage in agriculture. Jesus accuses Pharisees of tithing other
> goods, but I am not sure whether that accurately reflects the first
century
> practice.
>
> Vadim Cherny
>
>
> > Just reading in Malachi 3 and a thought occurred to me:  Had the
> definition
> > of "tithe" changed from the one in Leviticus [crops and herds] towards
the
> > one used in Christianity [all income whether goods or money] or does
that
> > post-date the break between Judaism and Christianity.  I just had a
> feeling
> > I may have been reading something into the text that isn't there.
> Checking
> > the meaning of "McSR " didn't help as it was basically "tithe", "one
> tenth".
> >  Did Judaism move towards tithing other than agricultural produce?
> >
> > Kevin Riley
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:27:26 +0100
> From: "Herman Meester" <crazymulgogi AT gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] shwa
> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <d965698e0603131027l1ed3d639s AT mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I'm sorry Vadim,
>
> could you clarify the following points:
> -what is a haial?
> -what do you mean by the smihuth and shtayim/shtey-issue?
> -what do you mean by your last paragraph (with 'nizcar' etc.)?
> Excuse me, I just lost you there.
>
> Best regards,
> Herman
>
> 2006/3/13, Vadim Cherny <VadimCherny AT mail.ru>:
> >
> > > >I would like to ask the interested members' opinion on the origin of
> > > >the word ???? shtayim.
> > > >Remarkably, this word has a shwa with the shin, but a dagesh in the
taw.
> > > >A so-called shwa na` (mobile) is supposed not to be followed by a
> > > >sharp begedkepet consonant sign:
> >
> > That is merely imprecise mnemonic rule.
> > Shtaim was originally used in smihuth, thus accent shift and
consequential
> > reduction to shtei, normalized as shtaim. As for the dagesh, it
indicates
> > the original form of piel or haial. Haial seems more plausible for me.
> > In other words, shtaim is a haial noun (or piel verb) commonly used in
> > smihuths.
> >
> > > But once you come to the realization that a shwa represents the lack
> > > of a vowel --- no more, no less --- everything because eaiser and more
> > > sensible.
> >
> > What vowel is lacked in nizcar? Interconsonantal schwa represents not a
> > vowel but consonantal vocalization, important in chanting to break the
> > clusters (ne-z'-car). Indeed, I argue that all Hebrew words originate
from
> > CV, thus zacer - nzacer - nezcar, but that loss of the vowel took place
long
> > before the Masoretes added interconsonantal schwa, which represents not
a
> > vowel, but vocalization.
> >
> > Vadim Cherny
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:22:46 -0700
> From: "Harold Jenkerson" <jenks AT gilanet.com>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 3.8
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <000701c646db$e4afdab0$3ddbead8@Jenks>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Sir,
> Most translations of this verse translate the Hebrew word "voice" as
"sound"
> and the word "spirit" as some meteorlogical term such as "cool," rather
than
> voice and spirit.  Would it not be in keeping with the entire message of
the
> Bible to keep to "voice" and "spirit"?
>
> To translate as such would it go against the Hebrew grammar of the verse?
>
> Thanks,
> Harold Jenkerson
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:00 AM
> Subject: b-hebrew Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10
>
>
> > Send b-hebrew mailing list submissions to
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> > than "Re: Contents of b-hebrew digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Re: shwa (Dr. Joel M. Hoffman)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:00:08 -0500 (EST)
> > From: "Dr. Joel M. Hoffman" <joel AT exc.com>
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] shwa
> > To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > Message-ID: <m1FInai-000GhjC AT exc.com>
> >
> > >I would like to ask the interested members' opinion on the origin of
> > >the word ???? shtayim.
> > >Remarkably, this word has a shwa with the shin, but a dagesh in the
taw.
> > >A so-called shwa na` (mobile) is supposed not to be followed by a
> > >sharp begedkepet consonant sign: it should have a soft
> > >"veghedhkhefeth" variant, if the shwa we are dealing with had once
> > >been a vowel - i.e. if it really is a shwa na`.
> > >
> > >Of course, to the Masoretes there was only one shwa: representing the
> > >absence of a vowel.
> >
> > Right (though others on this list disagree).  I go through this in
> > detail in my NYU book, where I include a discussion of the erroneous
> > thought process that led people to posit two kinds of shwa.
> >
> > SHTAYIM is not the only problem with the two-shwa theory.  Classical
> > grammars assume (impossibly) that the vocal shwa is pronounced but
> > does not add a syllable.  Then, because of words like SHTAYIM, some
> > grammars invent a third kind of shwa.
> >
> > But once you come to the realization that a shwa represents the lack
> > of a vowel --- no more, no less --- everything because eaiser and more
> > sensible.
> >
> > -Joel
> >
> > Joel M. Hoffman
> > http://www.exc.com/JoelHoffman
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > b-hebrew mailing list
> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> >
> > End of b-hebrew Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10
> > ****************************************
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:34:41 +1100
> From: "George Athas" <george.athas AT moore.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 3.8
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <009101c646e5$f3de6010$650a0a0a@ASSET00288>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Hi Harold!
>
> No, it would not go against the tenor of Hebrew grammar to translate the
way
> most English versions do. The issue you are raising is that of semantic
> range. One word may have a range of meanings, and it is the context which
> narrows down the range to usually one option within the semantic range.
For
> example, the English word 'run' has a range of meanings. Note how the
> context affects the way you understand the word in each of the following
> sentences:
>
> "The atheletes will run the marathon on Sunday."
>
> "I run a small business".
>
> "My radio runs on batteries."
>
> The context determines what exactly you mean by the word in question. With
> regards to Gen 3.8, the word QOL has a range of meanings, including
'voice',
> 'sound', 'noise', 'thunder'. In Gen 3.8, it describes YHWH walking around
in
> the garden. It doesn't seem natural to talk about the 'voice' of YHWH
> walking around the garden, but it is legitimate to talk about the 'sound'
of
> YHWH walking around the garden.
>
> Furthermore, the word RWX has a range of meanings including 'spirit',
> 'breath', 'wind', 'air', 'ambience' (cf., the range in English in such
> phrases as 'the spirit of God' and 'in the spirit of the game'). In Gen
3.8,
> the RWX is connected closely with YOM ('day'), and therefore seems to be
> describing a feature of the day, rather than an attribute of God. As such,
> 'cool of the day' is an acceptable translation. It's something akin to
'the
> day's last sigh' (ie, when daytime is nearly over).
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> GEORGE ATHAS
>
> Moore Theological College
>
> 1 King St, Newtown NSW 2042, Australia
>
> Ph: (+61 2) 9577 9774
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Harold Jenkerson
> Sent: Tuesday, 14 March 2006 7:23 AM
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 3.8
> Importance: Low
>
>
>
>
>
> Sir,
> Most translations of this verse translate the Hebrew word "voice" as
"sound"
> and the word "spirit" as some meteorlogical term such as "cool," rather
than
> voice and spirit.  Would it not be in keeping with the entire message of
the
> Bible to keep to "voice" and "spirit"?
>
> To translate as such would it go against the Hebrew grammar of the verse?
>
> Thanks,
> Harold Jenkerson
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:> >
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:> >
> Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 10:00 AM
> Subject: b-hebrew Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10
>
>
> > Send b-hebrew mailing list submissions to
> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:>
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:>
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > b-hebrew-owner AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:>
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of b-hebrew digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Re: shwa (Dr. Joel M. Hoffman)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:00:08 -0500 (EST)
> > From: "Dr. Joel M. Hoffman" <joel AT exc.com <mailto:> >
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] shwa
> > To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:>
> > Message-ID: <m1FInai-000GhjC AT exc.com <mailto:> >
> >
> > >I would like to ask the interested members' opinion on the origin of
> > >the word ???? shtayim.
> > >Remarkably, this word has a shwa with the shin, but a dagesh in the
taw.
> > >A so-called shwa na` (mobile) is supposed not to be followed by a
> > >sharp begedkepet consonant sign: it should have a soft
> > >"veghedhkhefeth" variant, if the shwa we are dealing with had once
> > >been a vowel - i.e. if it really is a shwa na`.
> > >
> > >Of course, to the Masoretes there was only one shwa: representing the
> > >absence of a vowel.
> >
> > Right (though others on this list disagree).  I go through this in
> > detail in my NYU book, where I include a discussion of the erroneous
> > thought process that led people to posit two kinds of shwa.
> >
> > SHTAYIM is not the only problem with the two-shwa theory.  Classical
> > grammars assume (impossibly) that the vocal shwa is pronounced but
> > does not add a syllable.  Then, because of words like SHTAYIM, some
> > grammars invent a third kind of shwa.
> >
> > But once you come to the realization that a shwa represents the lack
> > of a vowel --- no more, no less --- everything because eaiser and more
> > sensible.
> >
> > -Joel
> >
> > Joel M. Hoffman
> > http://www.exc.com/JoelHoffman
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > b-hebrew mailing list
> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:>
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> >
> > End of b-hebrew Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10
> > ****************************************
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:13:24 -0500
> From: "Steve Miller" <smille10 AT sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 3.8
> To: "'Harold Jenkerson'" <jenks AT gilanet.com>,
> <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <005c01c64715$42022540$230110ac@hp>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Harold,
>
> My favorite OT translations translate kol as voice: Darby, KJB, LXX, ASV.
>
> How would you propose to translate le ruach in Gen 3:8 as Spirit? I don't
> see a way to have Spirit make sense there.
>
> Thanks,
> -Steve Miller
> Detroit
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Harold Jenkerson Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:23 PM
> > To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 3.8
> >
> > Sir,
> > Most translations of this verse translate the Hebrew word "voice" as
> > "sound"
> > and the word "spirit" as some meteorlogical term such as "cool," rather
> > than
> > voice and spirit.  Would it not be in keeping with the entire message of
> > the
> > Bible to keep to "voice" and "spirit"?
> >
> > To translate as such would it go against the Hebrew grammar of the
verse?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Harold Jenkerson
> > ----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:30:26 -0500
> From: Karyn Traphagen <karyn AT birchbarkstudio.com>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 3.8
> To: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <76262DEB-FCB6-4519-A456-730AF9857B5C AT birchbarkstudio.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
> format=flowed
>
> Jeffrey Niehaus has an interesting argument in this article:
> ?In the Wind of the Storm: Another Look at Genesis III 8.? _Vetus
> Testamentum_. 44, 2 (1994): 263-267.
> He argues for a second use of _yom_ with an appeal to Akkadian evidence.
>
> Meredith Kline has another take, defending "Spirit of the Day? (i.e.,
> of judgment), with an appeal to Isaiah 28:6 (_Images of the Spirit_.
> Wipf & Stock Publishers, 1999). He also discusses the translation of
> the phrase in his book _Kingdom Prologue_, which can be downloaded
> for free (as a PDF or Word doc) at:
> http://www.twoagepress.org/books.htm
>
> Karyn Traphagen
> Westminster Theological Seminary
> Philadelphia
>
> On Mar 13, 2006, at 10:13 PM, Steve Miller wrote:
>
> >
> > How would you propose to translate le ruach in Gen 3:8 as Spirit? I
> > don't
> > see a way to have Spirit make sense there.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -Steve Miller
> > Detroit
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> Harold Jenkerson Wrote:
> >>
> >> Most translations of this verse translate the Hebrew word "voice" as
> >> "sound"
> >> and the word "spirit" as some meteorlogical term such as "cool,"
> >> rather
> >> than
> >> voice and spirit.  Would it not be in keeping with the entire
> >> message of
> >> the
> >> Bible to keep to "voice" and "spirit"?
> >>
> >> To translate as such would it go against the Hebrew grammar of the
> >> verse?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Harold Jenkerson
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:51:39 -0500
> From: Alan Calcutt <calcutt AT 3web.net>
> Subject: [b-hebrew] New Student
> To: BHebrew Email List <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <44163DCB.6020700 AT 3web.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hello,
>
> I have just signed up to the B-Hebrew email list. I have completed two
> years of Greek grammar and would like to begin to study Hebrew. I am
> planning on using Thomas O. Lambdin's _Introduction to Biblical Hebrew._
> I wanted to know what the group thought of this book as a beginning
> text. Also, I was wondering if there are any website or programs that I
> might be able to download to assist me in my task.
>
> Thank you in advance for your assistance.
>
> Alan Calcutt - Pastor
> Quebec Baptist Church
>
> "Sing to the Lord, bless HIS name;
> Proclaim good tidings of HIS salvation from day to day.
> Tell of HIS glory among the nations,
> HIS wonderful deeds among all the peoples."
>              (Psalm 96:2, 3)
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:17:50 EST
> From: STORMVOLCANO AT aol.com
> Subject: [b-hebrew] hell
> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <2f7.855bfe.31480e6e AT aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> is hades a real place according to the hebrew text?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 15:05:58 +0100
> From: Alexander Oldernes <alexander AT oldernes.no>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] hell
> To: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <002701c64770$6b71b0c0$1103a8c0 AT MLS.local>
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>
> The Hebrew equivalent of the Greek word hades is $)WL (SHeOL).
> Sheol is continually associated with death and not life. (1Sa 2:6; 2Sa
22:6; Ps 18:4, 5; 49:7-10, 14, 15; 88:2-6; 89:48; Isa 28:15-18; also compare
Ps 116:3, 7-10 with 2Co 4:13, 14.)
>
> Job 10:21 speaks of death as "the land of darkness" and Psalm 115:17 as a
place of "silence". Ecclesiastes 9:4-6,10 shows that the dead has no
conscious.
>
> Regarding Sheol, the Encyclopaedia Britannica (1971, Vol. 11, p. 276)
noted: "Sheol was located somewhere 'under' the earth. . . . The state of
the dead was one of neither pain nor pleasure. Neither reward for the
righteous nor punishment for the wicked was associated with Sheol. The good
and the bad alike, tyrants and saints, kings and orphans, Israelites and
gentiles-all slept together without awareness of one another."
>
> Since $)WL refers to a common grave for mankind, the word "hell" is not a
good translation, since "hell" suggests a contrast with "heaven" as a
dwelling-place of the righteous after death.
>
> When Jonah was in the belly of the fish, he called it "the belly of Sheol"
(NJB), since he was as good as dead.
>
> I haven't found any info about a geographical place named Hades or Sheol,
if that is what you are asking about.
>
>
> Alexander Oldernes
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <STORMVOLCANO AT aol.com>
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 1:17 PM
> Subject: [b-hebrew] hell
>
>
> > is hades a real place according to the hebrew text?
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:55:24 -0400
> From: "Ken Penner" <ken.penner AT acadiau.ca>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] New Student
> To: <calcutt AT 3web.net>, "BHebrew Email List"
> <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
> <EC6501D4A6BB5442B583E3FABC9D131F061A0DDB AT exchange.ad.acadiau.ca>
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>
> For grammars, check Tyler Williams' reviews at
http://biblical-studies.ca/hebrew/intro_hebrew.html
> Lambdin is a classic; in my experience, it is the introductory Hebrew
grammar most cited by advanced Hebraists.
>
> For software, I must point out Flash! Pro XP, software for building
vocabulary.
> http://s91279732.onlinehome.us/flash
> Although it is not yet keyed specifically to Lambdin's textbook (only card
bundles for Seow's chapters have been developed) includes all the words in
the Hebrew Bible, so you can build your own vocabulary lists.
>
> Ken Penner
> Acadia/Greek&Hebrew
> Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic vocabulary memorization software:
> http://s91279732.onlinehome.us/flash
>
> > I have just signed up to the B-Hebrew email list. I have
> > completed two years of Greek grammar and would like to begin
> > to study Hebrew. I am planning on using Thomas O. Lambdin's
> > _Introduction to Biblical Hebrew._ I wanted to know what the
> > group thought of this book as a beginning text. Also, I was
> > wondering if there are any website or programs that I might
> > be able to download to assist me in my task.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:47:02 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Dr. Joel M. Hoffman" <joel AT exc.com>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] shwa
> To: VadimCherny AT mail.ru
> Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <m1FJBji-000GhjC AT exc.com>
>
> >> But once you come to the realization that a shwa represents the lack
> >> of a vowel --- no more, no less --- everything because eaiser and more
> >> sensible.
> >
> >What vowel is lacked in nizcar? Interconsonantal schwa represents not a
>
> What do you mean, "what vowel is lack[ing]"?  There is no vowel.
> That's what lacking means.  (It's like the absurd question in _Catch
> 22_ about someone who never did something.  He is asked WHEN he didn't
> do it.  He is forced to answer that he always didn't do it....)
>
> -Joel
>
> Joel M. Hoffman
> http://www.exc.com/JoelHoffman
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:15:56 +0200
> From: "Yitzhak Sapir" <yitzhaksapir AT gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] shwa
> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID:
> <e6ea6c000603140815y2e49e13aw63fe6c43473d95fe AT mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 3/13/06, Dr. Joel M. Hoffman wrote:
>
> > But once you come to the realization that a shwa represents the lack
> > of a vowel --- no more, no less --- everything because eaiser and more
> > sensible.
>
> Dear Joel,
>
> What is your opinion of the study cited here?
> http://hebphil.blogspot.com/2005/11/short-vowels-in-hexapla.html
>
> Also, in my recent research into the final -h as a m.l. I came across the
> following:
> Khan, Geoffrey, "The orthography of Karaite Hebrew Bible manuscripts
> in Arabic transcription" Journal of Semitic Studies 38/1 (1993), p. 49-70.
>
> I didn't have time to look into this deeply, but it seems like an
additional
> interesting and perhaps so far relatively little known source of
information.
>
> Yitzhak Sapir
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of b-hebrew Digest, Vol 39, Issue 11
> ****************************************
>