Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>]

The whole point of unifying two bodies was for the procreation of 
the human race 'Go forth and multiply.'. If it can be demonstrated 
that same-sex marriage can produce offspring I may entertain the 
suggestion. But until then I will treat it as on the same lines as 
suggesting that 'inter species marriage' is OK as well. i.e. that it 
is fine for a man to have sex with his dog.

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Kevin Riley
Sent: Fri 10/28/2005 1:04 AM
To: 'b-hebrew'
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Leviral marriage
 
 Some retrojection is unavoidable - we are all children of our time - but
the basis is also an understanding of the story of Adam and Eve [whether
understood literally or otherwise] as a paradigm of God's ideal for human
families.  The current fashion for nuclear families undoubtedly contributes
to that, but the basis is there to begin with.  The Bible itself is silent
on the issue of whether Adam and Eve where meant to be the ideal for all
families in all times.  Most current 'mainstream' commentators focus on both
the 'twoness' and the 'maleness and femaleness' of Adam and Eve.  Whether
that is the correct, or only correct, reading is a matter of opinion, and
probably a debate we could avoid as it has little to do with Hebrew.  As was
said in another context, the Bible is not exhaustive truth.
 
Kevin Riley
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: Tna Swg
Date: 10/28/05 09:50:08
 
Might the condemnation of polygamy, and for that matter, same-sex marriage,
simply and only be a retrojection of current mores?
 
Marc Bauer
 
George Athas <gathas AT hotkey.net.au> wrote:
 
2 Samuel 12.8 (ESV) - Yahweh's words to David through Nathan:
 
And I gave you your master's house and your master's wives into your
arms and gave you the house of Israel and of Judah. And if this were too
little, I would add to you as much more.
 
 
This suggests that Yahweh, at least in the Hebrew Bible, is not opposed
to polygamy. He may not like it, but he certainly permits it. In a
patriarchal society like Ancient Israel (and other such societies),
polygamy was sometimes the only means of social welfare for some women.
That is, one man would marry multiple women in order to grant them
social refuge and security. The Tamar (Gen) and Ruth narratives intimate
this quite well.
 
If you take a canonical approach, then you could say that while Yahweh
permits polygamy, it's not his preferred option. Gen 1 and 2 certainly
proposes one-man-one-woman as the ideal. That is, it only takes one man
and one woman to form the adequate social unit to uphold society and to
give each other companionship. When there were women vulnerably outside
this unit, polygamy would have provided a means for social incorporation
and wellbeing. Polygamy needs to be seen in its context. It does not
seem to be condoned, but it is permitted for reasons of social
wellbeing.
 
 
Best regards,
GEORGE ATHAS
(Sydney, Australia)
 
 
 

_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew

This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email
Security System.


This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email
Security System.
>From k0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk  Fri Oct 28 05:34:17 2005
Return-Path: <k0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from mail70.messagelabs.com (mail70.messagelabs.com
        [193.109.255.115])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 252FE4C00B
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 05:34:17 -0400 
(EDT)
X-VirusChecked: Checked
X-Env-Sender: k0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk
X-Msg-Ref: server-5.tower-70.messagelabs.com!1130492055!83755934!1
X-StarScan-Version: 5.4.15; banners=kingston.ac.uk,-,-
X-Originating-IP: [141.241.2.18]
Received: (qmail 9507 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2005 09:34:15 -0000
Received: from kuexim2.king.ac.uk (141.241.2.18)
        by server-5.tower-70.messagelabs.com with SMTP;
        28 Oct 2005 09:34:15 -0000
Received: from [141.241.17.18] (helo=KUDBEX01.kuds.kingston.ac.uk)
        by kuexim2.king.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.50)
        id 1EVQco-00080L-RD; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:34:15 +0100
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:33:11 +0100
Message-ID: 
<6B84A53BD25BCA46B070A05DD8C8C9F874EF0D AT KUDBEX01.kuds.kingston.ac.uk>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: [b-hebrew] Yom in Biblical and Rabbinic Texts
Thread-Index: AcXbU40h1VtTvZ+RQlOJyAFL1/j0qwATxAnf
From: "Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>
To: "Tna Swg" <tnaswg AT yahoo.com>,
        "JP vd Giessen (FOL)" <janpieter AT giessen.fol.nl>,
        "Yigal Levin" <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6
Cc: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Yom in Biblical and Rabbinic Texts
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
Precedence: list
List-Id: Hebrew Bible List <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:34:17 -0000


If Yah was alone, who was he talking to? Had eternal loneliness made him 
a little eccentric? Or was he addressing a close companion?

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org on behalf of Tna Swg
Sent: Fri 10/28/2005 1:05 AM
To: JP vd Giessen (FOL); Yigal Levin
Cc: b-hebrew
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Yom in Biblical and Rabbinic Texts
 
And the divine choir in 1:26 is excluded?
 
Marc Bauer

"JP vd Giessen (FOL)" <janpieter AT giessen.fol.nl> wrote:
Hello all,

Peter wrote "viewed from a viewpoint on earth" but no human was on Earth the
first days. So can we translate "bereshit" (Gen 1:1) as "in a beginning", i.e.
God was the only One Who could observe His creation? 

Jan Pieter van de Giessen

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:47:34 +0200, Yigal Levin wrote
> Hi Peter,
> 
> This might be getting out of bounds for this list, but that was my 
> point exactly. Understanding the word "day" in the Creation story in 
> any literal sense does not work. Once you have to invent "clouds 
> that hid the sun", you're already adding elements that are not in 
> the text. This is good midrash, but certainly not a literal 
> understanding of the text.
> 
> Yigal
> 

>> One rather obvious suggestion is that the creation is viewed from a
>> viewpoint on earth. At first, perhaps, the earth was covered by clouds
>> (and geologists agree with this) so that the sun would not have been
>> visible, but there would still have been day and night. Only later, on the
>> third "day", the clouds cleared and the sun, moon and stars became
>> visible.
> 

_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew

                
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.  
_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew

This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email
Security System.


This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email
Security System.
>From rosewalk AT concentric.net  Fri Oct 28 09:13:40 2005
Return-Path: <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from valiant.cnc.net (valiant.cnc.net [207.155.252.68])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D1614C00B
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:13:40 -0400 
(EDT)
Received: from [64.3.184.45] (ts002d0045.nyc-ny.xod.concentric.net
        [64.3.184.45]) by valiant.cnc.net
        id JAA22811; Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:09:43 -0400 (EDT)
        [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.17]
Errors-To: <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: rosewalk AT rosewalk.cnc.net@pop3.rosewalk.cnc.net
Message-Id: <v04210100bf87d351b43f@[64.3.184.182]>
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:09:45 -0400
To: "JP vd Giessen (FOL)" <janpieter AT giessen.fol.nl>,
        Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>
From: Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Cc: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Yom in Biblical and Rabbinic Texts
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
Precedence: list
List-Id: Hebrew Bible List <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:13:40 -0000


Similarly, "yom" could have just meant a cycle of some sort, and
later, people could have read "day" into that, since the cycle was
connected with light and dark, which could have just been spiritual
light, and not daylight

Shoshanna



Peter wrote "viewed from a viewpoint on earth" but no human was on Earth the
first days. So can we translate "bereshit" (Gen 1:1) as "in a beginning", i.e.
God was the only One Who could observe His creation?

Jan Pieter van de Giessen

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:47:34 +0200, Yigal Levin wrote
> Hi Peter,
>
> This might be getting out of bounds for this list, but that was my
> point exactly. Understanding the word "day" in the Creation story in
> any literal sense does not work. Once you have to invent "clouds
> that hid the sun", you're already adding elements that are not in
> the text. This is good midrash, but certainly not a literal
> understanding of the text.
>
> Yigal
>

>> One rather obvious suggestion is that the creation is viewed from a
>> viewpoint on earth. At first, perhaps, the earth was covered by clouds
>> (and geologists agree with this) so that the sun would not have been
>> visible, but there would still have been day and night. Only later, on the
>> third "day", the clouds cleared and the sun, moon and stars became
>> visible.
>

_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew


---------------------------------
  Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew