Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Read, James C" <K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk>]

Yah is the creator of good and bad!
 
But what does that mean?
 
Does that mean that he purposefully created Satan with bad intentions?
Does that mean that he purposefully created man to fall from perfection in 
the garden at Eden?
 
Or does it simply mean that he is the definer of what is right and wrong?
And that he earnestly wishes for us all to do what is right?
 
DoesYah define what is wrong and then do it himself?
Or does he give us a fine example of what is right? And hope that we follow 
it?
 
 
The account of Job in no way gives the impression that Yah is the instigator 
of the trials,
but rather the conceder and allower of such. By allowing the trials he was 
expressing his 
faith in his servant Job's ability to resist the temptation to curse his 
Father and this was 
an amazing and honourific expression of love.
While Satan's goal was clearly for Job to fall in disfavour and to perish. Is 
it for no reason 
that his very name means adversary? The two could not be more distinct and 
opposite in 
their desires.
Yah says 'Do this' because he wants us to live.
Satan says 'Do that' because he wants us to die.

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>From pawel AT kul.stalwol.pl  Thu Aug 11 07:30:20 2005
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From: Pawel <pawel AT kul.stalwol.pl>
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Subject: [b-hebrew] Evil & God
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Dear Harold,

> HH: The idea is that God is good and creates what is good (Genesis
> 1). So God would not create an evil being, so the angel called the
> devil must have fallen.

I understand the idea. The problem was if the idea is
christian, or jewish, or both christian and jewish, or
neither christian nor jewish. In my opinion it is, on
one hand, both christian and jewish, as it is observable
both in christianity and in judaism, and, on the other
hand, neither christian nor jewish, as it is not an
official dogma of either of the religions.

> HH: More than once there is mention of the devil falling in the NT,
> although there is debate as to the nature of the fall (perhaps it is
> eschatological).

The fall of Lucipher is a story, a picture, an illustration.
It would be a really weird idea to take it literally.
A fall is a move, so it presupposes the state 'before'
and the state 'after'. Lucipher, being good before,
stopped being good and became evil. How would it be possible
when time does not exist? The 'mysterium pravitatis' lies
in the mystery of love. God loves his creation and wants
the creation to love him. It is impossible without free
will on both sides. Free will means choice and the possibility
of choosing the evil. This is the price for love.

> HH: I don't believe there is mention of a "jecer ha-tov" in the
> Bible, so that may be a mistaken assumption, at least in the context
> of Adam and Eve. Another thought is that the tree of knowledge of
> good and evil was a character test. if Adam and Eve had passed the
> test, they might have been confirmed in holiness.

There is neither a mention of a 'jecer ha-tov', nor of
'jecer ha-ra', the idea being of talmudic origin. As
it is believed, jecer ha -ra is innate and jecer ha-tov
appears at the age of bar-micwa (13). Actually, both
'jecers' seem to be a necessary condition of free will.
We may suppose that in paradise man was free from jecer
ha-ra. Rabbi Elijahu Dessler presents a very interesting
approach to the problem, assuming that in paradise
onely jecer ha-tov was possible. Hence my question.

Regards -

--
Pawel Sajdek
<>< XPICTOC NIKA ><>