Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Charles Rempel" <CharlesR AT mygalaxyexpress.com>]

Sorry, I haven't learned the convention for writing Hebrew here and its been
to long since I typed Hebrew to even try so I'll just give the verse.

Proverbs 14:10 The heart knows its own bitterness, And a stranger does not
share its joy.

Here the heart (LEV) knows (YADAH). I would suggest a word study in Proverbs
would contribute more then the examples being offered.

Charles D. Rempel
26 year intermittent student
Without Portfolio

-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Peter Kirk
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 9:04 AM
To: B. M. Rocine
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Re: paraphrases, etc


On 08/01/2005 03:42, B. M. Rocine wrote:

> ...
>
>>>
>>> It seems like you are pretending that the English word *heart* only
>>> refers to the blood-pumping organ.  It also means the center of a
>>> thing (as in "the heart of the sea") ...
>>
>>
>>
>> I accept that this usage is an overlap. I don't think it's a common
>> English usage, perhaps it is derived from the biblical idiom.
>
>
> Really?
> "heart of the matter" is rather common around here in sunny Syracuse,
> New York..
>
Fair enough, here too, but this is a non-literal use which is a bit
different.

>> ...
>> Yes, and English "heart" does not refer to the mind, the will, moral
>> character, conscience, or appetites, all of which are senses of
>> Hebrew LEB according to BDB.
>
>
> What???
> "I'm going to try with all my heart."  (will)  ...


I don't agree this is about the will. It is more like putting one's
heart into something, which has strong connotations of emotional
involvement.

> "Follow your heart." (mind)  ...


To me, this one (without further context, at least), means follow your
emotions rather than anything rational.

> ... (Song from "Those D-- Yankees") "Oh, you gotta have heart..."
> (moral character)  ...


Really? I don't know the song, but I would understand these lines more
as "you gotta have emotions".

> (line from "Law and Order" popular TV program) "What kind of black
> heart does a crime like this?" (conscience)  ...


Or "black heart" = twisted emotions?

> "My heart yearns for your embrace."  (appetite)


Clearly about emotions and romantic love. Not about appetite in the
literal sense which is what I have in mind.

>
> ...
>
> What makes you think that "vehasiru `orlot lebabkem" made any more
> literal sense to the ancient Hebrew mind than "remove the foreskins of
> your heart" does to modern English speakers?  If you ask me, "fixing"
> the figure of speech (explaining it) for a modern target language is
> akin to taking it right out of Jeremiah's mouth, right out of the
> Bible.  I would think such a translation procedure would be at odds
> with the deeply spiritual motivation that drives most people to the
> weighty task of translating the Bible.


This is a good point if you can demonstrate that this was indeed a
startling figure of speech in Jeremiah rather than regular and
well-understood Hebrew idiom. But a literal translation of a startling
figure of speech works in translation only if the readers have
sufficient background to understand what is happening. So I am not sure
about this one.
...

>
> ...  I admit to feeling strongly about this because of my faith about
> in the Word of God, but I can tell you also that I think the same is
> the case for *all* good translating of any document.


This is an interesting issue but one which may be off topic for this
list. I also have faith in the Word of God, but for me the only
authoritative object of that faith is the original text, and I recognise
that any translation will be less than completely faithful and so cannot
be relied on in the way that the original can.


--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/



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