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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Re: paraphrases, etc

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  • From: Peter Kirk <peterkirk AT qaya.org>
  • To: "B. M. Rocine" <brocine AT twcny.rr.com>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Re: paraphrases, etc
  • Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2005 15:04:22 +0000

On 08/01/2005 03:42, B. M. Rocine wrote:

...


It seems like you are pretending that the English word *heart* only refers to the blood-pumping organ. It also means the center of a thing (as in "the heart of the sea") ...



I accept that this usage is an overlap. I don't think it's a common English usage, perhaps it is derived from the biblical idiom.


Really?
"heart of the matter" is rather common around here in sunny Syracuse, New York..

Fair enough, here too, but this is a non-literal use which is a bit different.

...
Yes, and English "heart" does not refer to the mind, the will, moral character, conscience, or appetites, all of which are senses of Hebrew LEB according to BDB.


What???
"I'm going to try with all my heart." (will) ...


I don't agree this is about the will. It is more like putting one's heart into something, which has strong connotations of emotional involvement.

"Follow your heart." (mind) ...


To me, this one (without further context, at least), means follow your emotions rather than anything rational.

... (Song from "Those D-- Yankees") "Oh, you gotta have heart..." (moral character) ...


Really? I don't know the song, but I would understand these lines more as "you gotta have emotions".

(line from "Law and Order" popular TV program) "What kind of black heart does a crime like this?" (conscience) ...


Or "black heart" = twisted emotions?

"My heart yearns for your embrace." (appetite)


Clearly about emotions and romantic love. Not about appetite in the literal sense which is what I have in mind.


...

What makes you think that "vehasiru `orlot lebabkem" made any more literal sense to the ancient Hebrew mind than "remove the foreskins of your heart" does to modern English speakers? If you ask me, "fixing" the figure of speech (explaining it) for a modern target language is akin to taking it right out of Jeremiah's mouth, right out of the Bible. I would think such a translation procedure would be at odds with the deeply spiritual motivation that drives most people to the weighty task of translating the Bible.


This is a good point if you can demonstrate that this was indeed a startling figure of speech in Jeremiah rather than regular and well-understood Hebrew idiom. But a literal translation of a startling figure of speech works in translation only if the readers have sufficient background to understand what is happening. So I am not sure about this one.
...


... I admit to feeling strongly about this because of my faith about in the Word of God, but I can tell you also that I think the same is the case for *all* good translating of any document.


This is an interesting issue but one which may be off topic for this list. I also have faith in the Word of God, but for me the only authoritative object of that faith is the original text, and I recognise that any translation will be less than completely faithful and so cannot be relied on in the way that the original can.


--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/



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