Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 3:15 "bruise"

b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel AT juno.com>
  • To: sesamox AT hotmail.com
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 3:15 "bruise"
  • Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:49:55 -0600

On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:34:10 +0100 "Sesamo m." <sesamox AT hotmail.com>
writes:
> The word for "bruise", shu&#770;ph, is translated in a different way
> in
> other translations:
>
> "From now on, you and the woman will be enemies, and your offspring
> and her
> offspring will be enemies. He will crush your head, and you will
> strike his
> heel." (New Living Translation)
>
> "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy
> seed and
> her seed; he shall crush thy head, and thou shalt crush his heel."
> (Darby)
>
> I'm not a native English speaker, but If I'm not wrong, there is a
> big
> difference between "bruise" and "crush". Which is the real meaning
> (or
> meanings) in Hebrew?
________________

You are correct to note that in both cases it seems to be the same word.
BDB connects it with the idea "rub off, away, grind." The TWOT has

What, though, is meant by “bruising” or “crushing”? That such would
describe the action of a man with a snake is obvious but would it equally
describe the thrust of a snake’s bite at a man’s heel? The LXX translates
both uses of šûp in Gen 3:15 with tereo “to watch, guard.” The Vulgate,
on the other hand, uses two different verbs. To describe what the woman’s
seed would do to the serpent it uses the verb conterere “to crush.” To
describe what the serpent would do to the woman’s seed, it uses the verb
insidiari “to lie in wait.” This along with other factors has led several
commentators to connect the first šûp with another Hebrew verb ša?ap II,
“to trample under foot” and the second šûp with Hebrew ša?ap I, “to gasp,
pant after.”

I doubt that there is really any difference at all.

george
gfsomsel
___________
>From jwest AT highland.net Wed Dec 22 10:55:12 2004
Return-Path: <jwest AT highland.net>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: from SMTP02.INFOAVE.NET (smtp02.infoave.net [165.166.0.27])
by happyhouse.metalab.unc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4F014C005
for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:55:12 -0500
(EST)
Received: from s1100500644.highland.net ([204.116.38.124])
by SMTP00.InfoAve.Net (PMDF V6.2-X31 #30772)
with ESMTP id <01LIP30AWN0W9EDP3U AT SMTP00.InfoAve.Net> for
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:47:30 -0500 (EST)
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:47:28 -0500
From: Jim West <jwest AT highland.net>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Genesis 3:15 "bruise"
In-reply-to: <BAY10-F85B88600C7BD0BD11B9B9B1A40 AT phx.gbl>
To: Sesamo m <sesamox AT hotmail.com>
Message-id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041222103959.01b0a450 AT highland.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
References: <BAY10-F85B88600C7BD0BD11B9B9B1A40 AT phx.gbl>
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Hebrew Bible List <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
<mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
<mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:55:13 -0000

At 10:34 AM 12/22/2004, you wrote:
>The word for "bruise", shu&#770;ph, is translated in a different way in
>other translations:

I'm not at all sure what "shu&#770;ph" is supposed to be. Is it some
reference to Strongs or the like? If so, Strong's is not exactly the best
source of information on hebrew and greek word meanings. Further, to base
exegesis on it instead of the Hebrew text itself is sort of like eating
your dinner after someone else has chewed it and spit it in your mouth.


>"From now on, you and the woman will be enemies, and your offspring and
>her offspring will be enemies. He will crush your head, and you will
>strike his heel." (New Living Translation)

A genuinely dreadful "translation". Its actually a paraphrase and about as
useful as Strongs.


>"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed
>and her seed; he shall crush thy head, and thou shalt crush his heel."
>(Darby)

This is just the KJV.


>I'm not a native English speaker, but If I'm not wrong, there is a big
>difference between "bruise" and "crush". Which is the real meaning (or
>meanings) in Hebrew?

The Hebrew word is "shuph" and means "to trample" or "to stomp". Now, like
everyone, I've had my foot stepped on and a bruise left. It is not, then,
a question of "either / or" here but rather "both / and". If you stomp on
something hard enough you leave a bruise. "Crush" is a bit of an
overstatement- but I suppose its possible because if you stomp on something
hard enough to bruise it you might indeed crush it.

Best

Jim


++++++++++++++++++++
Jim West, ThD
Adjunct Professor of Biblical Studies
Quartz Hill School of Theology

http://web.infoave.net/~jwest Biblical Studies Resources
http://biblical-studies.blogspot.com Biblical Theology Weblog







Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page