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  • From: <david.kimbrough AT charter.net>
  • To: <dwashbur AT nyx.net>, <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Cc:
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Re: Job & Sumer
  • Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 3:02:11 +0000


Naturally you right, the LXX and DSS are not the oldest
records of Hebrew writing. The LXX is in Greek. What I
said was they were the oldest versions of Job we have.

There is ample evidence that both the Babylonians and
Sumerians had Job-like poems well into the 2nd Millennium
BC. There is no evidence that there was any language
anyone would call ?Hebrew? in the same time period, much
less a sophisticated body of Job-like poetry. Maybe there
was and we just don?t know about it. However to suppose
there was without evidence is speculation. Scholars have
to work with the evidence at hand.

In any event any Israelites around at the time were
shepherds who, according to traditional chronologies, were
in captivity in Egypt.


> From: Dave Washburn <dwashbur AT nyx.net>
> Date: 2004/06/11 Fri AM 12:26:06 GMT
> To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Subject: [b-hebrew] Re: Job & Sumer
>
> Sure, why not? We're dealing with what I call the
accident of preservation,
> for one thing. The LXX and DSS were done on parchment or
papyrus, whereas
> the Sumerian documents were done on fired clay. Is one
likely to survive
> longer than the other? I would hope so. Furthermore,
the DSS are not the
> oldest examples of "recorded Hebrew writing" that we
have. ISTM that the
> paragraph below has one standard for Sumerian and another
for Hebrew, which
> is not a valid procedure. We have no real idea how old
the Hebrew language
> is, and were it not for the accident of preservation, we
wouldn't have any
> idea that Sumerian ever existed. Basing such crucial
decisions on the whims
> of nature seems like shaky ground to me.
>
> On Thursday 10 June 2004 11:41,
david.kimbrough AT charter.net wrote:
> > Dave,
> >
> > Do you really think that a 4,000 year old Sumerian
cuneiform poem is
> > derived from a Hebrew poem. One Sumerian version is
dated at 1700 BC
> > (Ludlul BĂȘl Nimeqi), hundreds of years before any
recorded Hebrew writing.
> > The earliest surviving version of Job are the LXX or
DSS, which are, round
> > 2,000 years old. It seems like a slam-dunk to me.
> >
> > > From: Dave Washburn <dwashbur AT nyx.net>
> > > Date: 2004/06/10 Thu PM 05:08:04 GMT
> > > To: <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Job
> > >
> > > Here's the part that has always bugged me: how do you
know that these
> > > other poems aren't renditions or derived from a very
old Job story? I
> > > know it's chic to assume that the HB came last, but
I've never seen a
> > > good basis for such assumptions. For that matter,
why not conclude that
> > > such a theme was popular in the ANE and several
cultures built stories
> > > around it? There are lots of ways to look at this.
> > >
> > > On Thursday 10 June 2004 10:56,
david.kimbrough AT charter.net wrote:
> > > > Chris,
> > > >
> > > > Job is a Hebrew rendition of a much older poem,
"The Righteous
> > > > Sufferer" which is known both in Sumerian and
Babylonian. The basic
> > > > themes are same, a righteous man who performs all
of the correct
> > > > sacrifices and ceremonies falls from grace with the
gods and suffers
> > > > terrible afflictions. He struggles to understand
how bad things
> > > > happened to righteous men but expresses despair
ever knowing. A little
> > > > snippet -
> > > >
> > > > My god has forsaken me and disappeared,
> > > > My goddess has failed me and keeps at a distance.
> > > > The benevolent angel who walked beside me has
departed,
> > > > My protecting spirit has taken to flight, and is
seeking someone else.
> > > > My strength is gone; my appearance has become
gloomy;
> > > > My dignity has flown away, my protection made
off....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > David Kimbrough
> > > > San Gabriel
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > b-hebrew mailing list
> > > > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dave Washburn
> > > http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
> > > Learning about Christianity from a non-Christian
> > > is like getting a kiss over the telephone.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > b-hebrew mailing list
> > > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> >
> > David Kimbrough
> > San Gabriel
>
> --
> Dave Washburn
> http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
> Learning about Christianity from a non-Christian
> is like getting a kiss over the telephone.
>
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>

David Kimbrough
San Gabriel





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