Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>]

 Dear Vadim,
It is only the need to see Jesus here that
 a Jewish court is inferred.

The text takes place in Babylon under Persian rule. I assure
you there were no Jewish courts. In fact, I can
assure you there were no Jewish courts even in
Judah during the Persian period. I discuss this
extensively in my article 

You Shall Appoint Judges:  "Ezra's Mission and the Rescript of Artaxerxes,"
in J. W. Watts, Persia and Torah: The Theory of Imperial Authorization of
the Pentateuch, SBL Symposium Series (Atlanta: Society of Biblical
Literature, 2001): 63-89.

and in my book

The Priest and the Great King: Temple-Palace Relations in the Persian
Empire, BJSUCSD 10 (Winona Lake, IN: Eisenbrauns, 2004).

Liz Fried

> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org 
> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of UUC
> Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 3:52 AM
> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Isaiah 53: in his death?
> 
> Actually, pulling the beard is encountered even in Talmud as 
> a sanction.
> 
> In 53, the man was evidently executed by Jews; Isaiah, in my 
> opinion, would hardly call heathen court mishpat.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Vadim
> 
> 
> > Dear Jack, Harold, Peter, Vadim, etc.
> > These events are to be treated as descriptive of events that took 
> > place in the Persian period, the time of Second Isaiah. Any other 
> > interpretation violates all common sense imo. Prophets deal 
> with the 
> > events and concerns of their own times. They do not deal 
> with events 
> > happening 700 or 500 years in the future.
> >
> > I also don't agree that the protagonist in Isaiah 53 was 
> executed by 
> > his own people. If he was executed (and I say if) it was by the 
> > Persians in Persia.
> >
> > This poem is a continuation of Isaiah 50, and there the speaker is 
> > definitely jailed by Persians. Pulling out the hairs of the 
> head and 
> > beard, as well as flogging, are Persian sanctions, not Jewish.
> > Read Helzer, M. "The Flogging and Plucking of Beards in the 
> Achaemenid 
> > Empire and the Chronology of Nehemiah," AMI 28 
> (1995-96):305-7. This 
> > article definitely shows the Persian background to Isaiah 50. The 
> > speaker is jailed for disobedience to Persian authority for some 
> > reason. The kindlers of fire (50:11) may be Jews who rush after the 
> > customs of the Zoroastrians.
> >
> > I see Isaiah 53 as refering in the third person to the first person 
> > speaker of Isaiah 50.
> > Liz Fried
> >
> > Lisbeth S. Fried, Ph. D.
> > Visiting Scholar
> > Department of Near Eastern Studies
> > University of Michigan
> > 2068 Frieze Bldg.
> > 105 S. State St.
> > Ann Arbor, Michigan  48109-1285
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of UUC
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 3:26 AM
> > > To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Isaiah 53: in his death?
> > >
> > > Dear Jack,
> > >
> > > You're right that the rule was hardly enforced in the tumultuous 
> > > first century, especially with illegal execution by foreigners.
> > > However, if you treat chapter 53 as prophecy, the man was 
> executed 
> > > by his own people - thus mishpat, legal proceeding - not by 
> > > foreigners.
> > > Besides, I guess, the observance was more rigorous in 
> Isaiah's time. 
> > > This is only a guess.
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Vadim Cherny
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> >
> 
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