Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Theresa Roth" <theresaroth AT sympatico.ca>]

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Theresa Roth
 
Theresa Roth
10998 Longwoods Rd
Delaware ON N0L 1E0
(519) 878-3632
 
theresaroth AT sympatico.ca



> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Peter Kirk
> Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 6:28 AM
> To: 'b-hebrew'
> Cc: Wayne Leman
> Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Re: Grammar Texts Question
>
>
> Bryan, from the perspective of a translator as well as a reader of
> standard translations, I see a serious danger in your approach. If your
> students get too used to stretching English to its limits in answering
> your exercises, if and when they get on to serious translation (and
> don't put yourself down, Bryan, the next generation of translators of
> standard English Bibles may cut their teeth on your course) they will
> find it hard to distinguish stretched English from standard English, and
> to switch back to the latter. If this sounds fanciful, look at some of
> the wildly stretched supposedly English syntax in some modern Bible
> translations. Wayne Leman, who moderates the b-trans list, has collected
> many examples (mostly New Testament); see
> http://biblepacesetter.org/bibletranslation/. For example, there are
> verbs which are always transitive in English, except for some reason in
> the Bible; one example, common in translations of the Hebrew Bible, is
> "send", as in "Send and bring him" (1 Sam 16:11 NRSV). In English this
> is a grammatical error! We really shouldn't teach students that this is
> an acceptable English rendering.
>
> Also, I suspect that students want to learn Hebrew because they don't
> trust the standard translations and think they can do better. I was
> surprised that you wrote the opposite.
>
> Peter Kirk
> peter.r.kirk AT ntlworld.com
> http://web.onetel.net.uk/~peterkirk/
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-hebrew-
> > bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of B. M. Rocine
> > Sent: 27 January 2003 14:39
> > To: b-hebrew
> > Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Re: Grammar Texts Question
> >
> > Hi Rodney.  It's been awhile, eh?  Thanks for your kind comments.
> >
> > I would like to continue on one point you
> > have brought up.  It has significance for teaching/learning BH beyond
> > choosing a
> > first year grammar.  You wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >  3) Rocine's approach is to provide the "sense" of the Hebrew and
> not
> > > smooth translations into English.  I actually think that is a
> strength,
> > > but some students get a little frustrated and find it helpful to be
> > > prompted to reflect on how to render the sense in to smooth English
> > > idiom.  They learn about the problems of translating and the need
> for
> > > commentary.
> >
> > I think translation is over-emphasized in second language learning to
> the
> > detriment of comprehension and appreciation of the language. For
> instance,
> > many of my students, because of their previous experiences in secpond
> > language acquisition,  begin with the assumption that success is
> producing,
> > from a given passage in BH, an English version that matches their
> favorite
> > English tranlsation.  A student's favorite "bookstore" translation
> becomes
> > the answer key.  Until they get used to a different way, the question
> is
> > usually whether the translation is *correct*.  I tell my students that
> if
> > that's what they want out of the course, they would be better off
> buying
> > more different English translations and good Bible study software
> rather
> > than expend the great effort required to learn Hebrew.
> >
> > I guess students' obsession with translating is also because we think
> of
> > the
> > translations we buy off the shelf as authoritive, as if we can't do
> any
> > better.  Given their audiences and purposes, I would agree that we
> would
> > be
> > hard-pressed to produce better translations than NIV, JPS, Fox's, etc.
> > But
> > it is very unlikely that any of my students will produce yet another
> > translation on the bookstore shelf, so why make that the goal?  Is
> that
> > type
> > of smooth translation really the ultimate, let alone most practical
> goal?
> >
> > To me, translation actrivities are discussion exercises in dead
> language
> > acquisition.  In my course, we allow stretching English to its limits
> and
> > discuss whether we have produced a better or worse equivalence for the
> > Hebrew in terms of discourse.  Discourse analysis is the study of the
> > linguistic signs a writer/speaker uses to guide his reader/listener
> > through
> > a text. I think we would rather, while learning BH, appreciate and
> discuss
> > these signs than produce yet another smooth-sounding translation
> suitable
> > for the general public.  We can always do the bookstore version later
> if
> > we
> > care to.
> >
> > Shalom,
> > Bryan
> >
> >
> > B. M. Rocine
> > Living Word Church
> > 6101 Court St. Rd.
> > Syracuse, NY 13206
> >
> > ph: 315.437.6744
> > fx: 315.437.6766
> >
>
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