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  • From: Schmuel <schmuel AT escape.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu
  • Subject: Re: Iron and Bronze. The tribe of Dan
  • Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 08:20:58 -0400


Shalom b-hebrew,

Shoshanna
No offense to anyone, but this is a typical example of running around in circles and not understanding anything, because of not going to the source, ie;Torah and Oral Torah, for knowledge.

Schmuel

Well they are discussing in Torah (Pentateuch) and Tanach.

If you can share views from Talmud or rabbinical commentaries, about Dan,
and the numbering and names of the tribes, I am sure the forum would appreciate..

There is another part of the Dan discussion that I would like to mention...

My understanding is that in also in Tanach (perhaps 1 Chronicles 7)
and in the Messianic Testament, (Revelation 7) there are more listings of
tribes that exclude Dan ... the Revelation exclusion is particularly
a textual "hot-button" issue......... (because of some of the explanations
that are given in commentary for the omission) ... so I find this discussion
particularly interesting and perhaps able to shed more light on those omissions ....

Thank you :-)

Ian
<snip>
If anyone has problems with the notion that Dan was not
originally a tribe of Israel, they might like to explain

1) why Dan's original homeland is placed firmly in
sea people territory, including Ekron and Timna
(Jos 19:40ff) between the Philistines and the Tjekker;

2) why a group that had never had any connection with
the sea according to the biblical tradition, could
suddenly be already dwelling in ships in Jdg 5:17;

3) why Dan is considered "like" a tribe of Israel;

4) as the Denyen were one of the sea peoples who ended
up on the Levantine coast post 1170 BCE, why the
name Dan is linguistically extremely similar to
dnnym as the Denyen are called elsewhere (see the
etymology supplied by Gen 30:6 with dnny)

5) why 2 Sam 24:6 mentions the unexplainable dnh y`n,
usually transliterated as Dan-jaan, which is
linguistically similar to Denyen;

6) why Dan was apportioned Philistine heartland (Jos
19:40ff) but ends up somewhere totally different,
while considering that the sea peoples took
possession of the whole coast (explaining why Dan
could have a tradition locating it in Philistine
lands but ending up north); and

7) why Dan, according to Jdg 18:1, had no lands among
the tribes of Israel allotted to them, at such a
late date.

Ian
We could also look at the favourite son of the tribe
of Dan, Samson, with his sun-god name and his
Philistine wives. There is a wealth of evidence for
the lateness of Dan's inclusion among the tribes of Israel.

If the twelve tribes are so sacrosanct to people, they
might also like to explain why the Bani-Yamini were a
problem for the people of Mari, why Amenemope seems to
connect Asher and Zebulun with the sea peoples along
with Gaza, Ashkelon and Ashdod, why Simeon doesn't even
rate a mention in Moses' farewell speech which talks of only eleven tribes, etc.

Shalom,
Steven Avery
Queens, NY


schmuel AT escape.com

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic/





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