Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Liz Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan D. Safren [mailto:yon_saf AT bezeqint.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 2:37 PM
> To: Liz Fried
> Subject: Re: The Messianic Idea
>
>
> Liz, if you want to explain Isaiah 11 as being exilic, then you
> also have to
> account for such passages as Isaiah 9:1-6,
This is not eschatological.
I agree there was a pre-exilic Davidic covenant, and
mythologization of the Davidic king.

 esp. vv. 5-6; Jeremiah 23:5-8,
> the last part of his prophecies on the kings of Judah (and which
> is arguably
> talking about the newly anointed King Zedekiah);
I agree, he's talking about Zedekiah.

and Ezekiel 34,
> esp. vv. 23
> ff. Do you want to claim that they are all post-exilic too? (Ezekiel is of
> course exilic)
I think all the references to David in Ezekiel are added by a later
post-exilic
redactor.


And what do you do with with Haggai 2:20-23, from the reign
> of Darius I? I think all these prophets are talking about a Davidic scion
> about to reign or be born in their own time or close to it.
This is part of the reaction against Cyrus and the Persians.
As is Zechariah.


> To me, this appears to be a continuous chain of prophetic hope
> for an ideal
> Davidic king, starting with David and stretching down to the
> restoration of
> the Second Temple, when it is bitterly and finally disappointed.
> That, in my
> opinion, is when the clasical Jewish (and later Christian) idea of Messiah
> begins its real development..

I think you've got to allow for a little break there by Deutero-Isaiah.

Liz

> Sincerely,
> Jonathan D. Safren
> Chairman
> Dept. of Biblical Studies
> Beit Berl College
> 44905 Israel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Liz Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
> To: "Biblical Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 9:07 PM
> Subject: RE: The Messianic Idea (Was:Re: virgin: _BETHULAH_ and/or
> _(ALMAH_ )
>
>
> > I think the job description of the biblical messiah
> > (as opposed to the Christian) was based on the job description
> > of Cyrus the Messiah (Isaiah 45:1):
> > he would rebuild YHWH's temple and the city of Jerusalem,
> > he would return the exiles to their land,
> > and apportion their desolate heritage.
> > The disappointment in Cyrus led to the emphasis on the Davidic line.
> > I suggest passages such as Isaiah 11, which emphasize the Davidic
> > line are later, and post-exilic.
> > Prior to 2nd-Isaiah and Cyrus you have such exilic poems as Psalm
> > 89 which show the extreme disappointment in the promises to David.
> > In these biblical texts I don't see an eschatological Messiah.
> > I think you have to wait for Enoch, which I place later, and which
> > is influenced by Zoroastrianism.
> >
> > Liz
> >
> >
>