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  • From: "Peter Kirk"<peter_kirk AT sil.org>
  • To: <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>, <mattfeld AT mail.pjsnet.com>
  • Subject: Re: Dating the Pentateuch- Genesis and Ezra
  • Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:49:46 -0500


I think part of the confusion here is that you have not fully taken
into account the difficult syntax of Ezra 9:1. There is an exegetical
question: were the speakers actually saying that the peoples of the
lands ARE Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites etc, or were they saying
that the contemporary peoples of the lands are just as detestable in
their practices as these ancient bywords of detestation? Note the k-
in the Hebrew:

.. mE(ammEy hA):arAcOwt K:tOw(:abOtEyhem lakk:na(:anIy ...

NRSV: "...from the peoples of the lands with their abominations, from
the Canaanites..."

NIV: "...from the neighbouring peoples with their detestable
practices, like those of the Canaanites..."

But which interpretation is right? From the context we can say that
the NRSV is unlikely (in a literal sense), for, as Michael has said,
as many of these peoples just do not seem to have been around in the
Persian period, the names are rather memories from a much earlier
period. But I doubt if the Hebrew demands to be translated like the
NRSV rather than the NIV.

We need to settle this exegetical issue before trying to use this
verse in arguments for dating.

Peter Kirk


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Dating the Pentateuch- Genesis and Ezra
Author: <mattfeld AT mail.pjsnet.com> at Internet
Date: 13/03/2000 07:22


In a recent post to this list (14 Feb. 2000) Professor Jonathan D. Safren
noted that the Jewish Humanist scholar Spinoza (ca. 1670 CE) suspected that
Ezra had written the Torah:

"Spinoza's idea that Ezra wrote the Torah is still a pretty good guess (but
only that)."

If Ezra wrote the "Primary History" (Genesis-2 Kings), then it is most
unlikely that he would have written the statement found in Ge. 13:7,
describing the historical situation in the days of Abraham and Lot-

"At that time the Canaanites and the Perizzites dwelt in the Land"

This statement suggests to some commentators that the narrator is explaining
to his audience a situation that currently doesn't prevail, i.e., there are
no Canaanites or Perizzites presently in the land.

That Ezra would not have written this is suggested by comments attributed to
him in Ezr.9:1-

"The people of Israel...have not separated themselves from the peoples of
the lands...from the CANAANITES, the Hittites, the PERIZZITES, the
Jebusites, the Ammonites..."

How many years must elapse after Ezra's arrival in Jerusalem (ca. 458 BCE
according to some schools of thought), such that the national conscience
would have no memory of Canaanites and Perizzites having dwelt in the land-
100 or 200 yrs perhaps for the memory banks to have become erased,
warranting such a statement as Ge. 13:7 ?

This anomaly would suggest that Ge. 13:7 is perhaps a late gloss of either
the Late Persian or perhaps even Hellenistic periods, the 4th-3rd centuries
BCE.

All the best,

Walter

Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld
Walldorf by Heidelberg
Baden-Wurttemburg
Germany






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