Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Peter Kirk"<peter_kirk AT sil.org>]

I remember from years ago, probably when I was learning German, a 
little story of the mouse from Hamburg who set out to go round the 
world, but gave up when he got to Altona - a suburb of Hamburg. If you 
have correctly interpreted the data here, I suppose we have to assume 
that Terah was as ridiculous as that mouse.

Or are you suggesting that Terah's party stopped off in Haran for some 
shopping and Terah died suddenly there? I hardly think that Y$B can 
bear that meaning.

Actually I don't think it ever says that Abraham was BORN in Ur 
Kasdim. There is another possible scenario consistent with the texts: 
Terah lived in or near Haran and Abraham was born there, then Terah 
moved to Ur Kasdim (a long way off, we don't know where) and Abraham's 
younger brother Haran was born there, and died there (11:28). Then 
Terah and his clan moved back to Haran (11:31). I invite you to find 
anything impossible in that scenario.

Peter Kirk


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: SV: Gilgamesh (John)
Author:  <ronning AT nis.za> at Internet
Date:    27/01/2000 07:00


Peter Kirk wrote:
>
> Dear John,
>
> You seem to be equating Abraham's homeland, Ur Kasdim with the place 
> where Laban lives in Genesis 29:4.

Abraham himself made the equation, which is why I went to 
the trouble of quoting the verses. Once again,

Gen 24:4 go to ***my country*** and to my relatives, and 
take a
wife for my son Isaac.

Where Abraham sent his servant is where Laban was living, in 
Aram-Nahariam.

24:5 The servant asked him, "What if the woman is unwilling 
to come back with me to this land? Shall I then take your 
son back to ***the country you came from***?"

24:7 "The Lord, the God of heaven, who brought me out of my 
father's household and ***my native land*** ['erets 
mowladti]...
He will send his angel before you so that you can get a wife 
for my son ***from there***.[i.e. from my native land] = 
Ur-kasdim

Compare 11:28 "Ur-Kasdim, the land of his birth" ['erets 
mowladto] (Abram's brother Haran).

Very confusing directions and answers if Abraham came from 
600 miles away from where he sent his servant.

> That verse strongly suggests that
> Laban lives in Haran or its immediate vicinity, so close that
> shepherds from Haran knew him and watered their sheep in the same 
> place.

Which is no doubt why Rebekah said to Jacob, "Flee to my 
brother Laban in Haran" (Gen 27:43).


> Unfortunately for your theory, any suggestion that Ur was close 
> to Haran makes a complete nonsense of 11:31.

I suppose you are assuming there would be no need to 
"settle" [yashab, which I'm sure you'll agree can be a stay 
of a few hours] just down the road from where they set out. 
But Gen 12:5 suggests the reason for stopping in Haran - to 
acquire goods and servants for the trip.  From which I would 
infer Ur-kasdim was a small city where they couldn't get 
what they needed, so they went to the big city, where they 
spent a bit of time trading before proceding on to their 
destination.

It's proper procedure to interpret the unclear by the clear, 
not the other way around, and nothing could be clearer than 
that Abram's native land is Ur-kasdim, which in turn is 
clearly indicated to be near Haran, in Northern Mesopotamia.

Yours,

John Ronning


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