Biblical Hebrew Forum

[peter_kirk AT sil.org]

There are of course also statues of King David, including a 
particularly famous one by Michelangelo. You've seen it in Florence, 
surely, Ian? Proof that David existed?

As someone pointed out, Cicero is probably not a good example. But 
please, Ian, what is the evidence for the existence of Josephus? This 
question was put before, but you ducked it. Perhaps you're not sure 
which way to jump on this one, not sure whether others are going to 
use his reliability or his unreliability against you. Of course the 
MSS are all many centuries later. OK, the author of the works 
attributed to Josephus knew something about the siege of Masada (but 
seems to go against archaeology elsewhere), but then the author of 2 
Kings knew quite a lot (otherwise attested from inscriptions, the 
Babylonian Chronicle, the Lachich letters, the Mesha inscription etc) 
about the relationship between Israel and its neighbours from the time 
of Ahab onwards. In either case, if the author wrote many centuries 
after the event, you have to find a convincing way in which he can 
have had at least some accurate information about the ancient past.

As for the last sentence of your posting, I am becoming tempted to 
think that I can judge the value of your postings, Ian, by their 
length, in inverse proportion. This one I have read, but don't tempt 
me to judge them without reading them!

Peter Kirk


______________________________ Reply Separator 
_________________________________
Subject: Re: historiography (Ken, again)
Author:  <mc2499 AT mclink.it> at Internet
Date:    01/01/2000 16:22


At 01.25 01/01/00 -0800, kdlitwak wrote: 
>Ian Hutchesson wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, Ken, your analogy is inappropriate. Simply not analogous, 
>> unless you want to discount
>
>There are statues of Darth Vader. What does that prove?

It proves that you have little idea about physical remains and attestations 
from the past regarding the existence of people. It would seem that you are 
presenting a know-nothing approach about the past and you simply can't say 
anything at all. You should terminate the conversation you are having, 
because 
you have put yourself into an almost berkeyian position. Such gymnastics will 
only help you avoid anything that uses evidence from the past.

>More close to the target
>time, there is a status of Diana of Ephesus (I think) with about twenty 
breasts.  Does
>that prove such a being existed?  I don't think so.

Again examine the statues of Cicero before saying such stuff. You have been 
giving examples that show total lack of knowledge about things you should 
know of before you use them.

>> 1) the various statues of Cicero (et al.),
>> 2) Cicero's property (ie we have proof of the writer in #1 & #2), 
>
>No, we may have property that may have belonged to someone named Cicero, 
or "Cicero"

Marcus Tullius Cicero to be precise. How many of them can you find in 
history, Ken. Please try and provide even one attestation of anyone else 
with that precise name, living where he is supposed to have lived.

<snip>

>No one has shown why there's a real relationship.

No-one has shown a real relationship say between Josephus's knowledge of 
the siege of Masada and what really happened? No-one has shown the 
destruction of Megiddo from the time that the Egyptians reported they 
besieged it?

<snip>

..This would be like saying that two pieces of literature of the same 
length had the same literary value -- without, of course, having read the 
texts.


Cheers,


Ian