Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Ian Hutchesson <mc2499 AT mclink.it>]

Peter asked:

>Can you please clarify one point here. Did Josephus have in front of 
>him the Hebrew of the books (or most of them) now in the Tanakh, or 
>might he have had them only in Greek translation (LXX or something 
>similar)? Is there any clear evidence on this point? If he did not 
>have the rest of the Tanakh in Hebrew, it is hardly significant that 
>he did not have the Hebrew version of Ezra.

I don't know. Josephus says that he is much more at home with Hebrew and I
would think that he had copies of the available Hebrew texts -- what does
it take for a well-connected soul like him to get the texts he wanted?
However, in the one case regarding Ezra, he seems to be using 1 Esdras in
Greek.

But, the fact that he was using the Greek text of 1 Esdras -- which is
obviously a translation from a Hebrew source which is not the canonical
book of Ezra -- when he had a good idea of which texts were available,
including numerous other sources of Hebrew knowledge, brings into doubt the
existence of the canonical book, especially when you look at the evidence
for the existence of the book of Ezra prior to the second or third century.
Josephus is the evidence that 1 Esdras existed.

>Also, do you have the reference in Josephus to a supposed list of 
>books which excludes Ezra? 

As you note below, I didn't mention a list of book names.

>I refer to what you wrote: "He gives us an 
>outline of the most accepted Jewish works that seems to reflect some 
>notion of canon, but he didn't have Ezra!" The nearest I can find is 
>from "Against Apion" 1:8:

Yes, this is the indication that there was a restricted selection of books
that were recognised as -- for want of better words -- authoritative.

>     but only twenty-two books, 
> 
>     and of them five belong to Moses...
>     the prophets, who were after 
>     Moses, wrote down what was done in their times in thirteen books. 
>     The remaining four books contain hymns to God, and precepts for 
>     the conduct of human life
>
>This seems to show that the Hebrew scriptures (which Josephus is 
>contrasting with unreliable Greek writings) consisted of a series of 
>reliable books covering the period up to Artaxerxes - which is the 
>time of Ezra (according to MT). 

Yup. That's what it seems. Josephus believed that sorta stuff. Josephus
lived 500 years later. His outline was at most valid for his own times.

>This strongly suggests to me that 
>Josephus knew of some form of the story of Ezra in Hebrew, though this 
>was probably not what was in front of him when he wrote. 

Unfortunately there is nothing to help you with this theory. Josephus knew
a *text* which he had before him, whose strict order he followed and that
order was exactly that of 1 Esdras. He used the specific Greek forms of
names found in 1 Esdras that were very different from those of canonical
Ezra. It would be good for you to check this out for yourself.

>And then what 
>exactly were the 22 books he had in mind? 

He didn't say. He did however follow 1 Esdras closely, for it was evidently
authoritative for him.

>Later Jewish sources count 
>24 books, including Ezra and Nehemiah together. "New Bible Dictionary" 
>refers to Origen, Epiphanius and Jerome in suggesting that Josepus 
>counted togther Judges and Ruth, also Jeremiah and Lamentations, and 
>on this basis Josephus must have counted Ezra/Nehemiah, as a single 
>book, as part of his presumably Hebrew canon.

By the time of Origen, Epiphanius and Jerome, Ezra was a canonical book.
There testimony is irrelevant for any time prior to their own experience.
If you want to show that the canonical book of Ezra was around earlier, you
need earlier testimony. Josephus, as I have said, is testimony for the
existence of 1 Esdras.



Cheers,


Ian